Aspies For Freedom

Luckily my parents don't do this with me. I dunno about other people.

I started sending all my siblings and parents cards on birthdays and other occasions a few years ago.  I thought they might remember by birthday but only my mother does.  It makes me feel bad.

It is difficult to remember all the dates.  We put them on a calendar and copy them again every year.  I have to check a week or two before to see if I have to buy cards and mail them.  Often they arrive in the mail late.  I think that late is better than none.

About offending people unintentionally -- I have been told that I do that all the time.  Sometimes people just tell me that they hate me and they don't want to be friends.   They never even give a reason.  At least my mother will tell me but none of my sibling do.  I suppose after she dies, I will just forget about my family because I don't think they want me around.

Some concessions to the expectations of someone you care about are worth making, in my opinion. They probably make concessions for you, right?

Get excited and dog brain--I think you're being harsh to Daisy. It wouldn't kill her hubby to remember her birthday or their anniversary.

And yeah, I do think that some occasions like Mother's day and Valentine's day are hyped up by florists, jewelry sellers, and card manufacturers so they'll survive financially.

Couldn't you just give your mom random gifts just because you love her?

I haven't gotten my mother a mother's day gift yet... I am too busy and unless my father drives me downtown to shop I can't get anything for her, which limits my options to exactly 1: make a pair of earrings for her (it's my hobby). Which can take hours, which I don't have, and won't until school ends.
As for saying sorry, for some people somehow that isn't enough. My parents generally regard apologies as "excuses". To them, nothing ever can make up for the mistake. To commit an error in the first place is not reversible and nothing changes that, to them, no matter how sorry you are. I disagree with them. It makes our relationship rather sour.

The "love on demand" or "love on a schedule" expectation can be really frustrating. When I was a kid, my Mom would lose it temper-wise and then, when she'd calmed down, demand that we kiss her and say that we loved her. This made me truly neurotic and distrustful about love.

I think that some people are insecure and need those symbolic expressions of love. But to demand them might have the effect of driving the loved one away.

Is there anything you could do to help your mum with her IRS problems? Seems as if you are still in regular contact but not quite as frequent. Most people panic about dealing with government agencies and I hear the IRS is a lot meaner than the Australian Taxation Office.

Luai_lashire Wrote:

As for saying sorry, for some people somehow that isn't enough. My parents generally regard apologies as "excuses". To them, nothing ever can make up for the mistake. To commit an error in the first place is not reversible and nothing changes that, to them, no matter how sorry you are. I disagree with them. It makes our relationship rather sour.

How perfectly awful! I am very glad you have the sense to disagree with them; attitudes like theirs make life so much harder. Are they that unforgiving of each other, or only of you? Sad

daisy may Wrote:

No-one said anything about money.  Calling someone to say you care is nice. I'm not skinny, or privileged, I don't expect everyone to conform and actually don't celebrate Mother's Day myself.  I was just trying to explain why someone might feel hurt if you didn't call.

Why does it hurt to apologise if you have hurt someone?  That is not AS or NT, it is just kind.  I live in a foreign country.  I don't always get the social things right - but if I accidently offend I say sorry.  I understand that you may not see it that way but I often feel that many people here plead for understanding but want it to be a one way thing.  Understanding goes two ways.  I took the OP to mean that he was sad that he had accidentally offended his mum.  Well, unless she is really horrid she'll accept sorry and try to understand.

You are right energeia - concessions for people you care about are worth making.  I don't have any birthday presents now as my OH finds it too difficult to do presents.  My concession as I actually LIKE presents (not about monetary value - I don't care what they cost).  We try hard to understand each other and concessions are made on BOTH sides.

No one is imposing anything on anyone but strangely no-one here likes it if people don't try to understand them.  Is understanding only one way?

What you have been saying is obvious, but perhaps what we are saying is less obvious to you?

There is a whole side to NT communication that I see and could get very offended by if I *chose* to.  Sometimes I look at the way people go on with each other and it like (sorry to be graphic), it's like watching someone with thier guts hanging out, spilling out all over the floor.  I choose not to be offended.  I choose not to feel hurt if people display all thier gory faults.  People offend themselves.

When someone is ready to get into the blame game by using a simple missed phone call to dissolve into hysterics, then all they are considering is themselves, thier own self regard, in childish egocentricity.  I don't choose to encourage such behviour in my family out of my love and respect for them.  I show my love in my own way.

Yeah, if I see something that I think a person I care about would like, I don't necessarily wait until some officially sanctioned event such as mother's day comes about.

daisy may Wrote:

Alectrum - trying hard to understand what you are saying. My husband says he feel people display their feelings too much and it hurts.

For the original post I took it to mean that the OP was sad that they had offended UNINTENIONALLY and was asking how to resolve that. Personally I think anyone who gets hysterical over a missed phone call is stupid, but often such reactions are the result of a chain of small hurts. If you have accidentally upset someone I think if it is OK to say to that person 'I'm sorry you are hurt' - you don't have to apologise for your action just acknowledge their hurt.

If someone is acting out like that then an apology will not help in the long wrong.  It will act as an encouragement for them to do it again over another trivial thing.  It's just attention seeking behaviour.  If they can't get positive attention then negative attention will do.

It's usually fine to apologise to people if you've unintentionally hurt thier feelings.  Most people don't regress to the level of a 5 year old when they're hurt.

Emotionally mature people will respond to a pattern of small hurts in a direct or imaginative way, drawing attention to the pattern in a non judgemental manner.  A small joke.  Or a sigh with a smile and a 'oh, there they go again!' comment.  There are any number of ways to resolve difficulties whilst leaving your ego at the door.   Smile

That should have read 'in the long run'. !

Korrigan Wrote:

Marluxia Wrote:

No, it really can't. It seems like it should work that way, but it doesn't.

No matter how many times we try to "explain" what it means to have autism, I truly believe it is more difficult for them to understand us than it is for us to understand them. The reason for this is that we're usually taught early on that we think differently from other people, and this makes us open-minded, whereas many NTs simply cannot wrap their minds around the concept that someone else might not think the way s/he does. Much of the hostility we encounter comes from this very thing, and unfortunately, trying to explain "I did xyz because I'm autistic" only makes it worse. It's perceived as an excuse, even if it isn't, it's like grabbing base when they were about to catch you at tag and going, "Nyah nyah nyah, you can't get mad because I have autism, so just let me act however I want." All it serves to do is make them angry.

"But," you ask, "surely they'll listen to reason? Surely I should be able to explain the hows and whys of my heart to my own mother?" Nope. If you really want to put this behind you and make up, apologize. I know you did nothing wrong. You didn't have to. NTs apologize when they did nothing wrong all the time. It really has more to do with the pecking order than any actual sense of guilt. Say you're sorry, you didn't mean to hurt her, and you'll be sure to call her next time. Kiss and make up, and do it again a month later when she puts her NT expectations on you and you fail to live up to them, again.

Either that, or tell her Mother's Day is a stupid, made-up Hallmark holiday with no actual meaning to any sensible person, and that she's clingy and unreasonable. It's what I'd tell my mom. But my mom would agree with me. The first time I saw my mom cry was when her skull was fractured. Yours seems a bit weepier. Better bring tissues.

I am having to sit and think really hard about this, as the first thing I thought when I read this post was simply, WTF?  Since that is not entirely well thought out, I am going to try and take a moment to figure this out in better detail.

I believe I said this before, but this has little to do with NT or AS.  This has to do with the fact that people, as PEOPLE, sometimes expect a certain kind of treatment.  This person's mother, in fact, was hurt by not hearing from her child on a day when the day is named "Mother's Day."  For her, it is simply a non-optional social convention.

My husband was never taught that he thought differently than others.  No one knew he was an Aspie till about 3 months ago.  Though he thought that Mother's Day was a commercialized holiday, he still got his mother a card and did something nice for her.  Why, because it was expected by her.  Because he did not want to upset her or cause her pain.

The issue is not an NT or AS one.  I tire of the constant attempts to separate everyone like this.  I am here, and working to increase understanding, and make this world a better place, where people are accepted as they are.

I am not sure that you can wrap your head around it, but not all NT people are so closed minded.

Korrigan - when the above poster says 'it should work in that way but it doesn't' - I believe I need to translate here, and a recent experience (I'll share tomorrow) has firmly underpinned this in my mind.

It's a matter of time, living in the now mostly, or living in the past/future sense. NT's that *get us* are brillient, but fall down in relating to us because when problems come up then they are often 'not in the moment'. Problems happen when from our perspective, when an NT knows we are aspie, then they should be 'thinking in the moment', but so often a problem crops up and then it's waiting for the NT to understand, and the aspie is thinking 'wtf did I do wrong that they just misunderstood me now?' Don't they understand me?

It's a timing thing. We should all watch out for that. Maybe it's a practise thing. NT's can live in the moment and be aware of this - if they practise.

I'll go now before I monologue on buddhism and practise Wink

Batman55 Wrote:

alectrum Wrote:

I'll go now before I monologue on buddhism and practise Wink

Oh, spare me the know-it-all and pedantic monologues, daresay before I point out the irony of you encouraging the loss of ego/loss of control in life and sounding like an arrogant know-it-all at the same time! Rolleyes

You also like to maintain control--it shows in the way you constantly try to intellectualize things and show off your knowledge.

Not to start a fight, of course. But merely I'm saying your monologues don't make you the selfless Zen master you would like to portray yourself as.

True. True. Tongue

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