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source:  http://www.thestar.com/article/422318

DNA may hold clue to suicide, study says

Sussing out secrets from your DNA can start with a home kit.
Victims' brains reveal tell-tale alterations
May 07, 2008 04:30 AM
Joseph Hall, Science Reporter, The Toronot Star

People who are prone to suicide may have genetic alterations in their brains that could one day be identified by a diagnostic test, a Canadian study says.

It also found that childhood abuse may cause neurological changes that could impact how critical genes express themselves in an area of the brain responsible for mood and stress, says the McGill University paper.

The groundbreaking study was published yesterday in the online journal Public Library of Science.

Moshe Szyf, a professor of pharmacology at McGill, says his team examined the brains of 13 Quebec men who committed suicide to look for differences in their neurological DNA.

They found that the chemical coating on the DNA that tells its chromosome genes how and when to work – the so-called epigenetic component – was altered in the 13 men, all of whom had a history of childhood abuse.

"The genetics we inherit, these are the letters of the book of life," says Szyf, the study's principal author. "The epigenetics are actually the punctuation marks of this book."



In the case of the suicide victims, Szyf believes the troubled childhoods of the suicide victims started a "cascade" of significant biochemical reactions in their brains.



Further research will be needed, but Szyf said the findings suggest it may be possible to test a living person's blood to see if the telltale epigenetic changes are present.

Towards that goal, Szyf says scientists can now study people who have shown suicidal tendencies to see if there are differences in their blood-borne immune systems that would suggest the brain alterations.

Szyf says if people could be identified as high risk, they might be treated psychologically or chemically to mitigate their suicidal tendencies. "This is what we're aiming at. We're not there yet."

But Dr. Gustavo Turecki, a McGill psychiatrist and study co-author, says it's "far-fetched" to believe the study could one day lead to a diagnostic test for suicide prevention.

Instead, he says, the study's main contribution is to show that environmental factors can change the epigenetic programming in humans, as well as animals.
IT IS NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT ABOUT GENETICS!

GAH!  Did you even read the article?  It was about EPIgenetics, which is NOT genetics.

The men in question developed a "somatic epitype" due to environmental stress.  The research showed that it was NOT a genetic matter but an EPIgenetic matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatic_epitype
ok epigenetics.  there is no edit button.
Note to self- look up epi-genetics - never heard of it. and no plans to read about suicide - too glum for me.

I just was thinking, what is the next thing that "they" will want to "cure" and raise money for - "biomedical research"? A genetic predispostion towards suicide, how about towards alcoholism, oh already is one? let's "Cure" that..., no? Where would a thread about this go?

atypical Wrote:
Note to self- look up epi-genetics - never heard of it. and no plans to read about suicide - too glum for me.

I just was thinking, what is the next thing that "they" will want to "cure" and raise money for - "biomedical research"? A genetic predispostion towards suicide, how about towards alcoholism, oh already is one? let's "Cure" that..., no? Where would a thread about this go?


THE PAPER IS NOT ABOUT A GENETIC PREDISPOSITION!

EPIgenetic!
EPIgenetic!
EPIgenetic!
EPIgenetic!
EPIgenetic!

Am I the only person alive who has a basic education in biology?

DogBrain Wrote:
THE PAPER IS NOT ABOUT A GENETIC PREDISPOSITION!

EPIgenetic!
EPIgenetic!
EPIgenetic!
EPIgenetic!
EPIgenetic!

Am I the only person alive who has a basic education in biology?


Just the only one shouting about it in all caps... *grins*

EvilZakkie Wrote:
Just the only one shouting about it in all caps... *grins*


Actually, once my ears stopped ringing from all of the yelling, I went and looked it up.  It was interesting!

"Szyf says if people could be identified as high risk, they might be treated psychologically or chemically to mitigate their suicidal tendencies. 'This is what we're aiming at. We're not there yet."

Could they force people to take treatment?  Or would it be a prenatal test?
inheritable changes in genome function---

sounds the same as genetics to me ---
(only kidding Dogbrain)

atypical Wrote:
inheritable changes in genome function-



EPIgenetic changes ARE NOT ALWAYS AND AUTOMATICALLY INHERITABLE!

READ THE ARTICLE ON THE SOMATIC EPITYPE THAT I LINKED TO!!!!!

DogBrain Wrote:

atypical Wrote:
inheritable changes in genome function-



EPIgenetic changes ARE NOT ALWAYS AND AUTOMATICALLY INHERITABLE!

READ THE ARTICLE ON THE SOMATIC EPITYPE THAT I LINKED TO!!!!!



Dogbrain - thanks for keeping the passion alive - ALL CAPS SmileWink
I will comply.

My gosh, it is so excruciatingly boringly written... and why did you keep typing EPI genetic if you wanted us to look up Somatic epi-type -genetic - and hey, the title of this thread says genetics. I'm not awake and/or smart enough to follow this... :O(

atypical Wrote:
My gosh, it is so excruciatingly boringly written... and why did you keep typing EPI genetic if you wanted us to look up Somatic epi-type -genetic - and hey, the title of this thread says genetics. I'm not awake and/or smart enough to follow this... :O(



Read the article that started this thread.  It is entirely and completely NOT about genetics.  And somatic epitypes are not genetic, they are EPIgenetic.  I capitalize for emphasis, since people just refuse to GET A CLUE on this matter.  Epigenetic is not the same thing as genetic.  Developments in epigenetic science, such as the somatic epitype and the "LEARn Model" (idiosyncratic capitalization used by original authors) are making waves among the real scientists (as opposed to the popularizers) in the field.

Almost nobody gets even the most rudimentary and basic of science education these days.  It explains why murderers like "Autism Speaks" and chelation quacks get to be so popular.

... well, i think scientists may be about to discover why depressed people slouch, and why people have rhumatics.
"A somatic epitype is a non-heritable epigenetic alteration in a gene. It is similar to conventional epigenetics in that it does not involve changes in the DNA primary sequence. Physically, the somatic epitype corresponds to changes in DNA methylation, oxidative damage (replacement of GTP with oxo-8-dGTP), or changes in DNA-chromatin structure that are not reversed by normal cellular or nuclear repair mechanisms. Somatic epitypes alter gene expression levels without altering the amino acid sequence of the expressed protein. Current research suggests that somatic epitypes can be altered both before and after birth, and this alteration can be in response to exposure to heavy metals (such as lead), differences in maternal care, or nutritional or behavioral stress. There is no indication that somatic epitypes are heritable in a conventional epigenetic fashion. Some research suggests that methylation levels (and gene expression) can be reversed for some somatic epitypes by alterations in environmental factors such as diet."  
from wikipedia.
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