http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml...ID=8218186
"Cottrell's attorneys asked for the five-year mandatory minimum sentence saying that their client has Asperger's syndrome -- a form of autism marked by impaired ability to understand social situations.
They said it affected his judgment and kept him from backing out when his two friends started lighting Molotov cocktails.
But Judge Klausner said high intelligence should work against a defendant, not in his favor.
"What a talent to have wasted," Klausner said. "There's only one person to blame for that, and I'm sure Mr. Cottrell understands that it's him."
Bravo for this judge! I agree with him, AS is not an excuse for arson! Plus he's implying AS is a talent.
Arson is a very serious crime, if a fire spreads it can kill many, many people, in the UK it can carry a life sentence even if no-one is harmed at all.
Its a shame that he let his talents go to waste and did these crimes.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=8218186
"Cottrell's attorneys asked for the five-year mandatory minimum sentence saying that their client has Asperger's syndrome -- a form of autism marked by impaired ability to understand social situations.
They said it affected his judgment and kept him from backing out when his two friends started lighting Molotov cocktails.
But Judge Klausner said high intelligence should work against a defendant, not in his favor.
Jerry: The judge is wrong. High intellect does not mean good social judgement. Cottrell could easilly have done what he did to win the approval of others. Most people would know better.
Bravo for this judge! I agree with him, AS is not an excuse for arson! Plus he's implying AS is a talent.
Jerry: AS is not an excuse for arson but this person needs a sentence that considers his severe social naivete, which IS part of AS and helps him gain more social awareness so eventually, he can return to free society, use his talents and not get suckered into doing something as stupid as this again.
But does social naivete make someone go an a spree of arson, it wasnt one occasion.
Jerry, to say that this guy was "suckered into" his actions suggests that he was mentally incapable of making moral choices. Not true. There are millions of Aspies in the world... do you know of any others who have become serial arsonists?
Hooray for the judge.
Jerry, to say that this guy was "suckered into" his actions suggests that he was mentally incapable of making moral choices.
Jerry: No, it does say that his ability to make such moral choices could be clouded by a need to please others, especially if he has few friends.
Not true. There are millions of Aspies in the world... do you know of any others who have become serial arsonists?
Jerry: No, but I know that the unabomber was on the spectrum, probably aspie and Temple Grandin and I both suspect that one of the Columbine teens was an aspie. Then there is the serial subway highjacker in NYC, a confirmed aspie and has been for years. So what is your point?
Jerry
Hooray for the judge.
I say hooray for the fact that most of us will never be allowed to be judges.
These people aren't likely on the spectrum. They're using a little known condition as a defense to get away. I really don't appreciate somebody saying the Unabomber is an Aspie or the Colubine shooter. Remember, for $ psycholigists will diagnose defendants.
You shouldn't just assume someone doesn't have Aspergers because they committed a crime, or that the crime had nothing to do with the Aspergers. I find it amazing how people in here seem to have a knee-jerk reaction of 'he committed a crime, it's NOTHING to do with aspergers, and they probably haven't got aspergers anyway'.
It's understandable that you don't want Aspergers to be assosciated with criminal behaviour, after all, people seem to love making generalizations about certain minority. I think Aspergers would play a large role in a crime committed by an aspie, after all, Aspergers is an intrinsic element of who they are.
Does that make it right? Of course it doesn't, what he did was wrong. But I think it's absurd to immediately try and detach Aspergers from something like this. Aspergers isn't all flowers and sunshine, it has many negative effects. And no, I'm not pro-cure, and I certainly wouldn't trade my Aspergers for being an NT, but I try my best to accept reality.
From an environmental point of view, setting fire to things needlessly is bad for the environment too. So that was counter productive, and there are many others ways to protest an issue peacefully.
He did brag about what he did afterwards in e-mails to friends, that formed part of the evidence against him. So he must have known what he did was something extreme and unusual.
I cannot see him as an innocent in all this. In time I think he will admit that himself.
his ability to make such moral choices could be clouded by a need to please others, especially if he has few friends.
If we were talking about some petty misdemeanor, I might agree with you, but arson is a very serious and potentially life-threatening crime. Social naivete isn't much of a mitigating factor there.
I say hooray for the fact that most of us will never be allowed to be judges.
As far as I know, there aren't any laws that prohibit aspies from becoming judges, and if any such laws were to be passed, I certainly hope you wouldn't applaud them.
Or perhaps by "us" you mean AFF members? Because judges are expected to withdraw from any case in which they have a personal bias, if any aspie activists became judges and were assigned a case like this, the proper course of action would be to have it reassigned to another judge, if they believed that their personal views might influence the decision.
[quote=jerrynewport]his ability to make such moral choices could be clouded by a need to please others, especially if he has few friends.
If we were talking about some petty misdemeanor, I might agree with you, but arson is a very serious and potentially life-threatening crime. Social naivete isn't much of a mitigating factor there.
Jerry: I am not saying he should walk. But what about the people who put him up to this? Are they being punished too? He should be punished but the punishment should take into consideration his obvious social communication disability. The punishment should be appropriate.
I say hooray for the fact that most of us will never be allowed to be judges.
As far as I know, there aren't any laws that prohibit aspies from becoming judges, and if any such laws were to be passed, I certainly hope you wouldn't applaud them.
Jerry: Of course not, but I certainly want any judge to show more sensitivity to individual circumstances than I read here!!
Or perhaps by "us" you mean AFF members?
Jerry: I couldn't say that because I don't know everyone in AFF but if none of the people responding to this thread become judges, that is fine with me.
I certainly don't view him as innocent, just because he has Aspergers, I just think some people seem to be in denial of the fact that AS influences our actions, good and bad.
I certainly don't view him as innocent, just because he has Aspergers, I just think some people seem to be in denial of the fact that AS influences our actions, good and bad.
I guess this is good and bad news. The bad news is the abundant denial you notice.
But the good news is that we have a new talent pool of potential prosecutors
Jerry
To put it in perspective, if a child with AS got involved with a gang who persuaded him to commit arson, then AS would be an important factor.
If an adult who was obsessed with fridges, and was very poor and stole a book on fridges that he desperately wanted, AS may be a factor (there was a very similar case and the girl was let off).
Commiting the arson more than once and bragging about it later is different.
In the scenario you describe he would then be detained in a mental health facility instead as a danger to society, as someone who knows no right from wrong.
This has happened to people who were judged incapable of understanding their actions, is that a better outcome for him?