Aspies For Freedom

I don't see any problem with an NT among our ranks, as long as said NT isn't here to tell us that our problems are due to religion, dicipline, drugs/alcohol, etc. or isn't trying to make the case that we're all insensitive assholes who hate children when we say we don't support the total eradication of Autism.

To be fair, I've actually been kicked out of other Aspie groups because people in them decided that I wasn't Aspie enough for their ranks.  Apparently, it is possible to diagnose someone based on what they say in an online forum.  In one group that I was banned from on Myspace for "being an NT making fun of people with a serious condition", I even scanned my original diagnosis paperwork and emailed that to the moderator, who didn't seem to care.

Sometimes, we get dates from the places we don't expect.  It confuses me.

1.  For a long time I didn't see much of anything except from some of the women with invisible disabilities from Dateable, and then one Aspie, so I thought, Aspie on Aspie.
2.  Then Keisha, obviously a college educated NT, shows interest.  I have to wonder...... OK, maybe it isn't the Asperger then, but still that leaves a lot of the white women still skittish, and since I am still 100 pounds overweight I can't rule out the white people, weight obsession thesis Keisha's mom and I were kicking around at Thanksgiving.  And that was just after the two guy friends/and their wives (white folks) were talking about the possible role of obesity as a detriment to dating, and the women were frank about attitudes.

Unless, Devil's advocate, they hyped up the fat guys don't get any play angle for my own good health sake.  Which my doctor would say is worth a lie or two.

Korrigan, don't engage. It's completely pointless at this point. everyone is welcome here-you, jiggeryqua, everyone.  

I'm an NT and I feel pretty accepted here.

I was ganged-up on once some months back and to tell you the truth I forget what it was all about.  Probably's Hope's many body image issues, I don't know. Sometimes I handle those well, sometimes not, but hey, the other day she told me she adored me. I will remember that for a long time. I mean how many teenagers tell their mother that?

I think the real reason I stay here is Aspies imo tend to be very direct, don't play mindgames as a rule and don't hide behind a persona the way NTs tend to do. Or some Aspies will say they have to build a persona for when out in public, but privately, with their family or alone,  there is no persona, see the distinction?  We (NTs) tend to be too good at game-playing, role playing, hiding our true character, you name it. The false persona persists even when alone or with family I think.  I am probably not articulating this very well. It is certainly subtle. My Dad was a Cappy, not a Gemini, but he had two distinct personas- one for work, one for home. The work one was so popular, so seemingly carefree that no one would have guessed he was developing heart disease at a fast clip due to stress with his crazy boss, a researcher who friggin' faked some of his research.

In any case I am seeing the advantage of living more of your life squarely in the right brain, as opposed to the logical, sometimes mean spirited, barking left!! There is no joy in the left brain imo!!!! (Watch the Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor video in the thread I posted last week folks!)

Last night I was reading Anthony Bourdain's memoir about being a bigtime NY chef and he talked about his mentor, a restauranteur who hired according to perceived character not degree or resume. How refreshing! I can relate to that. Character is developed over time and is solid, whereas the other two can be faked. People with character can be TRAINED whereas the other two- well you can't instill character if it isn't already there....Aspies have character in the sense that they don't seem to spend a lot of time manipulating people, working angles- know what I mean? I find it refreshing.

Look at Hilary. Personally I admire her hardworking ethic, but she is so complex, so adept at re-inventing herself when needed that I really don't know exactly what her character* is in a sense. I sense she would get us out of Iraq, I sense she would really try once again to solve the healthcare crisis, but beyond that I have no idea how she feels about such basic issues as abortion, illegal immigration, social security.  Ditto for Barack, ditto for McCain, all consummate NTs...

*nonetheless, [/b][/u]rumor has it she REALLY does live and breathe politics as she and Bill spent a wedding anniversary watching a debate on tv NOT going out to eat. Lord!

We must get out of Iraq, though, and for that reason alone I will vote for the Democratic nominee whoever he/she is.  

I find that when I am most honest with people (without being unkind) people really respond to me because honesty is in such supply these days. Recently I told some friends, co-workers exactly how much my family was in debt (something I never would have done in years past- too proud) and then they felt they could tell me their horror stories too. Everyone relaxed their defences for a minute. It (money) is the defining issue for us right now. I am committed to getting out of debt in the next two years even if it kills me.

Nothing is given or taken at face value anymore- Look at politics- it is nearly all spin. Or everything is grossly exaggerated to where it no longer resembles even a partial truth. It's sad and disconcerting...

Did you know that spiritually the most important thing you can do is simply to be utterly [u][b]honest with yourself? (NOT attend x number of church services or say x number of prayers where you continually ask for something, etc., and on and on) That's where all true change begins...

Finally, I've read that globally lots of women are leaving chatrooms because males tend to be too aggressive verbally. It's a worldwide phenomenon then, not just something intrinsic to AFF.

Not to throw a wrench into the thread, but some people on AFF don't read very quickly (on the other hand, a lot of people on AFF do read very quickly.)

Is it possible some of us could use the "less is more" mantra a bit more, for the former group?  I find it nearly impossible to contribute anything in a thread where half the posts are 2 pages long, and it's really not my fault (it's my poor reading ability, and I don't have a choice in the matter.)

Oh, I was hoping it might have died a natural death overnight...

Thanks for your apology, Alias - none was needed, it's almost inevitable here that confrontation is going to spark an understandable outburst from someone along the way.  I'm sorry that what happened here upset you to that degree.  You might even get an apology from the person who admitted setting this whole thread up to spark a confrontation, cunningly gathering out of context support from naive users before springing the trap.  I doubt it though - apologies seem difficult for her.

I think, by the way, I'd still be seeking an apology if she had called me a 'mormon'...

[b]Batman55[/i], I don't go out of my way to create long posts, and I try to format them helpfully, paragraphs and so on, but some ideas and discussions require more space than others.  Maybe I should stop being reasonable and relying on facts and evidence, and just curtly call people I disagree with 'moron'....

oh come on Gareth - edit button!  It's so difficult to prove read in the quick reply box, and then as soon as you've posted the error is glaringly obvious.

You really don't know when to leave well enough alone, do you?

EvilKazzie just posted some rules for this forum - and while it would hardly be fair to apply them in retrospect, it ought to be clear enough that setting up a thread in order to set up an attack on another poster (as you admitted) using a collection of out of context quotes (as you admitted) for an imagined thought-crime that you refused to discuss in the thread you thought you saw it (except with an insult), is hardly acceptable behaviour.  Thanks though for conceding that it was premeditated, and that you and your chums enjoyed pillorying someone.

Those rules also cover bigotry (though that's also mentioned on the front page quite comprehensively).  You used the thread mentioned, and your selective out of context quoting, to imply that I was bigoted against NTs.  I repeat my position - that this is AFF, and the interests of the spectrumites among us must be paramount - certainly to the extent that, when you insult aspies the way you did (other aspies also tried to explain this to you) an apology would be in order, even if with the disclaimer that your offense was unintentional.

In fact you refuse - like kattoo, though slightly less stridently, you stand on your right to say what you will and anyone who doesn't like it can leave.  It is not appropriate for an NT to adopt that position here, anymore than more for an aspie.  It is not the purpose of AFF to provide a place where aspies can learn how to 'fit in' to the NT world.  Your judgemental commentary on a recent post by guesswho shows your hand again.

Ideally, of course, any poster, NT or aspie, would apologise to some degree if told that they had been given offense.  Your refusal to do so is not related to your being an NT - and my problem with sharing a forum with you is related to your personal attitude, not with you as an NT.

What was this end result that you're happy with?  The purpose of the thread, as you have said, was two-fold - to solicit expressions of support (we are a supportive group) without telling those posters why they were being lined up behind you - and then launching a grudge attack, that was ill-founded, considered only the evidence that supported you, encouraged your chums (coincidentally NT, attacking an aspie) to pile in ad hominem attacks - and created distress in other aspies.  You're happy with that?  Really?

<giggles>

Each to their own, I guess...

Oh please, here we go again - this thread was dead, Bella, with no 'winners', until korrigan decided to come back and post again, saying she was pleased with herself for bringing this about...and yet all through it, I'm the one that's expected to 'leave it alone'.  Maybe that's what you'd do, I don't people to do what I'd do - I don't people to leave the forum either...I have said, and I'll say again, that kattoo and korrigan have brought attitudes that I see as inappropriate and unwelcome here.  I am aware that korrigan has posted uncontroversially in other threads - as have I.

Now, let's brace ourselves for another rush of people adding to this with posts saying it should end...isn't it ironic...

<edit button> "I don't tell people to do what I'd do - I don't tell people to leave the forum either"

Would watching emotional movies, movies with long conversations help you decode NT emotions and social cues? How about plays?

Someone mentioned once that etiquette books really helped him understand NT culture when he was younger....

Will somebody please lock this?  I'm a little tired now of korrigan boasting about the beasting she and her chums set this thread up for.  Still, I expect I'll again be blamed for it - confrontation between man and woman must be the man's fault, after all...and when someone gathers up a group of friends to attack a single target, the thread will relatively feature less of them individually and much more of the single target, responding to so many different jibes and jabs.  Unsurprisingly, I am not happy with the way this thread turned out - but at least that makes you happy, korrigan...it's all about balance, eh?

It is possible to achieve balance by moving to the middle, rather than grabbing any available weight for your end of the see-saw and then shrugging innocently at the sap on the other end that you've hoisted in the air (as you and kattoo and others have said, if you don't like it, you can get off...that may not be 'telling someone to leave', but it's damn sight more objectionable than trying to point out to you that NT assumptions and attitudes need to take a back seat spectrum behaviours here, otherwise you risk giving the impression you think those behaviours are 'wrong'.)

So, what's the valuable NT lesson from this thread?  "There has to be negative to be positive."  Excellent - does that mean I can punch some of the people who've been irritating me lately?  And then boast that I'm pleased with the result?  I've always thought of violence as inherently negative (in deed or word...words like 'moron' for example) but no I know that there has to be war or we'd never know what peace was...we'd just be living it all unawares.

Which might ring true if korrigan hadn't had a whole page of selective out-of-contect quotes to hand, designed to label me as discriminatory.  

It might ring true if she clearly hadn't roped in some chums by telling them 'he's a misogynist' or somesuch (I forget who's take on the 'banter' - that's not the right word, by the way, for calling someone a moron - was expressed in a way that made it clear she hadn't read it, but had picked it up vis some kind of chinese whisper).  

It might ring true if her accusations were remotely true - or if she'd shown any inclination to listen to and understand representations from a range of spectrumites as to why NTs might need to remember that they're posting on AFF and accept that their actions and attitudes might bear some adjustment in that light.

It might ring true if she didn't keep returning to the thread to preen and flaunt - inevitably, I read it that she's happy she got away with it, that she at least managed to upset and offend me, if not silence me.  I'm not, by the way, as you've guessed, terribly interested in what it looked like to you - or indeed, anyone else.

It might ring true if she apologised for calling me a moron - that would be a good step, don't you think? Something everyone might agree would be to the common good at this point.

So... I'm sure I can be dismissed as 'misinterpreting' this, but you're essentially saying "hey, guy - she's a woman - she is above common rules of social courtesy, so get over being offended, get used to it - you won't get an apology, she's entitled to not give a damn because of the relative power of the groups your genitalia assign you to - besides, someone wrote a song about it once, "you're the man, you're at fault" I think it went" <hums the tune>.

Pretty sure sexism is right there as an obviously unwelcome attitude on the front page guidelines, and taken as read in the current thread on forum rules.  Of course, it was imagined sexism that sparked the offensive insult that korrigan refuses to apologise for on account of her chromosomes...this thread just oozes irony.  It couldn't be that she only objects to one form of sexism, could it?