Aspies For Freedom

If you want to stay and you get something from it, stay... If you find AFF is having a negative influence, then maybe take a break.

You're too hard on yourself.  You need to give yourself a break sometimes.  ...One thing that does annoy me is you keep saying Aspies are meant to have lots of intellectual gifts and are meant to be good at Maths, but I wish you would remember the times people have told you that is not true and that there are others out there who struggle as well.  

I know I'm not gifted with great intelligence or maths skills.  We're all individuals.  We all have different interests, flaws and things we're good at.  You just need to accept the things you're good at and ignore the things you're not good at.

You're not entitled to any gifts.  Nobody is.  We are what we are.

For the record I'm not naturally good at anything. I read a lot of books and I made up stories in my head, which is why I can write stories.  You're not the only one with problems.  I don't know what sort of life you have or what sort of family I have, but your recent posts have made me angry, not just on this thread, on the other ones too.  

Let me tell you what I've been dealing with lately - my dad hit my sister and called her a moron just the other day, but my dad has Parkinsons and also probably Bi-polar and the morning after his anger he rang both my sister and I in tears. So I put aside my morals about him hitting people... hell I've even seen him hold his wife around the throat while she called out to me for help and I was helpless because I was scared of him... but now I need to sit and listen to him talk about his problems because he is ill and I help him.  

Oh yeah and I also fractured a vertebrae in my spine a few years ago. I had to learn to walk again and I still get pain from it.  But I do what I can.  Which is what you need to do as well. And what makes me better than you is I actually care about other people.

Ok, the I'm better than you thing was harsh and uncalled for. I'm sorry.

I didn't post that for sympathy. I want you to see that other people have it hard as well... It's not all about you.  You seem to always think everybody else has it easy and I wanted to prove to you that that isn't the case.

I don't dislike you Batman. You have misinterpreted my point there.  The reason that I posted was it really grated on me how you always complain that you don't have gifts like other Aspies.  It seems to me that you're so self absorbed that you seem to think you have the most important problems.  Any help people try to give you is simply dismissed. And you talk of not being generous, yet you expect everybody on AFF to be generous to you and help you all the time.  There comes a point where the buck lies with you to help yourself. If you know you're life is not good... do something else.  Even if that is just getting out of the house and finding something to occupy yourself with.

I wasn't going to add to this thread but perhaps I should.  Batman55 - you read a lot of posts on here and you contribute a lot.  You are always saying how 'unintelligent' you are, but before I've even had time to read the threads you've read, digested and responded in a very erudite way.

Well I don't think I'm unintelligent.  In fact I think I'm quite bright.  You can do these things quicker than me so obviously you are not unintelligent.  However the difference between you and me is thay YOU think YOU are unintelligent.  The rest of us either think you are quite bright, or in many cases probably don't care.  That is the truth, it isn't all about you.

You are young, you have gifts which you probably don't recognise, and you are filled with negativity and self-pity.  Many of the people on this site seem to me to have a much rougher deal in life than you but they are a pretty happy, positive bunch on the whole.  They are all here because autism has touched their lives in some way and they are trying to do the best they can.  Everyone has their problems but everyone has their happy moments and qualities.

It is sad for someone as young as you to be so unhappy.  When people like Ethel reach out and try to be friends perhaps you could try to reach back.  I know you don't like advice and what you do is entirely up to you but I do hope that you can manage to break out of the spiral of negative thoughts and realise that the person who needs to value you is YOU.

I was in two minds whether or not to respond to this thread or not, as it seems that you aren't really paying heed to what people are telling you, Batman. I don't really think you'll pay heed to anything I say to you here either - and thats not an Aspergers thing - thats a personality thing.

When I first found out I had Aspergers, it was a reason for the world to change around me. It was the reason I had a God-awful temper, and nothing could upset my routine. Everything had to be adjusted to fit in with me - poor me, I can't go into crowds, I can't do social contact, I say quite nasty things at times, I have a vile temper... poor ocampo, she has Aspergers. I had a terrible attitude to life, genuinely believed people just wanted to hurt me, that the world had no place for me in it etc etc...

Bullshit.

All that attitude has done has brought me misery. Anyone who knows what I was like when I first came to AFF (and especially saw me during the logicalconclusion saga) can probably vouch for the fact I've mellowed out completely. My attitude has ruined the relationship I thought would lead to marriage; its messed up my university degree; its cost me decent friends; its alienated me from the kind of people I do need to involve myself with and attracted arseholes. I've spent 2 months wallowing in fear, paranoia, self pity and a major bout of depression wondering what the hell is wrong with me. And the thing that was wrong with me? My attitude. You know how bad this Aspie stereotyping bullshit is? I felt guilty towards my community because I make the effort to smile more, to interact a bit more etc. I feel like I'll be pounced upon because my eye contact is much better these days and I'm actually pleased it is.

I've lost count of how many times I've cried myself to sleep over how bad I've felt my life is, and how lonely I feel that I am, how much I just want my 'old' life back. Change is scary, and positive changes... well they're the scariest. It means packing up all the shit you think about yourself and putting it in storage, if not the furnace. I've been around all the mental health teams in my area since my teens, begging to be fixed. And nothing will fix you if you don't fix yourself.

I used to flip out if someone crossed me in the street; I had an evil temper, and a really sharp tongue. The slightest thing could set me off - react first, ask later. Well, that shit had to go, because it was going to end up with me getting my head kicked in one day. And the resentments I held? They had to go too... what were they doing anyway, bar stoking some fire that really should have died a long time ago? I detached myself from the idiots I used to hang out with (of which there's plenty), and got back in contact with myself. Started listening to classical music again. Phoned the mum I'd not spoken to in 2 years. She'll never gave me the apology I want... but thats not the point.

You take life on life's own terms.

I had to take my mum on her own terms. For years, I battled with this woman. She was the reason I turned out the way I did, the reason I craved affection, the reason I ended up in bad relationships and messed up the good one I had. It was always her fault, never my own self-defeating, negative, mistrusting, self-absorbed attitude. Anyway, a week ago, I went to her house, and I sat and I cried, and cried, and cried. All I wanted was a mother who was going to take away all my misery, and be there for me, and understand me. Why couldn't she be that? I told her about Aspergers, about my relationship breakdown, about all of my fears, all of my misery. Even 3 months ago, I'd have wanted that apology, that ownership of her part to play in my mistakes. I said "I have Aspergers syndrome", and explained what it was. Now my mother isn't an intelligent or emotional woman. She's your typical wee Scots/Irish housewife who doesn't do much to stimulate herself, just plods around the house taking care of my schizophrenic dad. I used to be embarrassed by her; I was her intellectual superior. But here I am, bawling my eyes out because I feel like the biggest retard on the planet, and it hurts, I actually have a pain under my left breast, I feel like my world has crumbled... I'm not that superior. I explain what Aspergers syndrome is, and wait for her response...

And she just goes quiet, looks away, and says "I thought you were just a difficult child." And that sentence in itself managed to strangulate a demon that had lurked inside my head for years. It was never the 'sorry' I craved - but I won't get that 'sorry'. Because I can't demand life to be on my terms - we don't always get what we want. We do, however, get what we need. I thought that was a bullshit phrase for years, a copout for accepting second best. But really... she could have said 'sorry' and what? I'd have gotten what I always wanted... but it wasn't what I needed. Sometimes what you want and what you need are not the same thing.

I asked why she never held me as a kid, and she said "you wouldn't let me as a toddler, you'd scream, kick and cry if I came near you... in the end no-one knew what to do with you." Pause. "No doctor said you were...whats that thing you call it."
"Autistic."
"Aye... that. We just thought you were a funny kid, and no-one knew what to do with you. I was too scared to come near you sometimes."

She started asking me more about autism/Aspergers, and when I explained it, I could see her looking slightly upset. As if someone had just explained to her why she was never going to get the feminine daughter who would have been her best friend, and why she got this silent, brooding tomboyish daughter with a bad temper instead.

My point to that is, if you don't take life on its own terms, you will be an unhappy person. Life will throw a lot of crap at you, but you deal with it. Its just a day. When I feel down, I tend to think of my day in terms of a working shift. If I can get up in the morning, and I feel crap, I do something I enjoy. Classical music really keeps me sane, so I get up, and I put on some music. I have a shower, I check my emails, and I progress throughout my day in this fashion... When I feel a bit of angst nipping at my heels, I distract myself from it, remind myself "its only one shift".

Another example... I do desperately want to get back with the person I was with. I've had to accept that I suck at some things - I did do a lot of horrible things, my behaviour was really possessive and controlling, but it was out of insecurity, not out of being a bad person. I accept my responsibility in that sense, and have been consciously looking at where I need to adapt. I can't expect her life to revolve around mine, and what I want. Its hard for me to leave her alone, to give her time to calm down and actually miss me, but I have to do it because its what she needs. By trying to get her to accomodate me constantly, I've driven her away. So I need to accept things as they are right now, and yes, they are painful, its extremely painful (and there's plenty of times I've sat and cried over it), but I have to take life on its terms, and adjust my reactions totally. People have said they're positive for us working it out with a lot of time and healing, but today... today this are how things are. I only have today to behave in accordance with.

Incidentally, I'm starting to do volunteering work, in order to try and keep my mind active, and to get me to appreciate what I have in life. I appreciate a lot of what I have; I might not the life I wanted, and no, its not easy for me. But I'm trying, because I do have good things in my life, and I am lucky to be here.

My point in all of this is that you have the opportunity to change the destructive elements of your personality. You do come across as extremely negative, and its hard to try and get through to people in that mindset. The only person who can help you, is you, by changing your attitude towards things. You don't always get what you want... but with the right attitude, you do get what you need.

Dear Batman55,

I've missed you while I was away. I hope that says something. When I read your posts I see struggle. And sometimes I think AFF is one of the things that help you not to slip away into total endless depression. I do admire your persevation. And I also sometimes get tired. Both; admiration and getting tired. Because depression is tiring to me. It's coming so close. Depression is catching. I think you are doing what you can. So you're also a kind of inspiration; Despite all internal difficulties you struggle on.

I'd like you to stay. And of course I hope some day you'll just find some unexpected happiness, just to make your day. But in the end it is indeed the question if you want to stay.

And your posts, I've said you before, they are intelligent. An average IQ says nothing. Lots of aspies have huge differences in their intellectual capabillities. Some are great in language and very bad at math. Some can do math, but cant calculate their home economics. You are who you are. You know some capabilities and some things you're not good at at all. Maybe one day you value yourself enough to accept help where you need it so you can excell where you can.

I agree that the disinterest in, and complaints about advice puts Batman firmly into the attention-seeking category. And I'll agree that it's annoying that others still take this stuff seriously.

That being said, it's fairly easy to avoid being drawn into these sorts of games - it's simple to avoid these sorts of attention trap threads, him trying to derail other peoples threads by complaining about intelligence is ignorable, and it's easy to block PMs.

I don't believe this is about whether or not Batman is a "good guy" - Ethel was simply expressing frustration that people are rewarding attention-seeking behavior.

It may be true that Batman is unable to help this behavior - but the reason for this is addiction to the responses given.

If this truly is the case, then we can help him - but the only way to do it is by not rewarding attention-seeking posts.

It doesn't really work that way - I didn't become a robot when I became a moderator, and I still express my opinions whenever it seems appropriate.

On this topic, it isn't just about taking sides with Ethel - it's also related to personal experiences with Batman.

The two statements I made were advising Ethel that it was easy to avoid angst, and stating that it's not a good idea to reward attention-seeking behavior. Feel free to try to point out how this means I "expected perfection", or was "intolerant of difference".

As to the first bit, the percieved weight of my opinions is not a reason not to state my opinion. I choose not to be a robot.

It's not as simple as that - pointing out that certain behaviors are irritating is not the same as dislike.

I can only speak for myself, and in my opinion you have two sides. You can make insightful contributions to posts, which I like. You also have attention-seeking habits, such as demanding advice then complaining about it, or derailing threads whenever someone claims to have done something intelligent, or shows any other sort of ability. Unsurprisingly, this is the side of you that I dislike.

Where I stand currently is that I wouldn't ask you to leave, and I'm happy to debate with you in threads where you're actually contributing something. On the other hand, I know that any response to a request for advice results in you complaining about the advice, any attempt to address your complaints about not being intelligent results in derailing entire threads, and the majority of your PMs are complaining about things I've said, complaining about other forum members, or asking me to tell you about medical conditions you think you might have - so I don't usually respond to advice threads, and I've left you on PM block.

I also consider it an issue that people reward your attention-seeking side with attention, causing you to escalate these sorts of threads.

If it was just as simple as wanting you to leave, I just wouldn't bother talking to you at all.

Absolutely. I'm not telling people in general to block your PMs - that's a personal choice.

In this thread, I've suggested specifically that Ethel blocks your PMs,  as she stated she was receiving unpleasant PMs. I also mentioned it in response to your previous post here as an example of what I meant by your behavior.

That being said, I don't believe that PM content is off-limit in thread discussion.

Done.