Aspies For Freedom

GuessWho your incredible lack of experience in the arena of serious relationships and/or marriage is evident in many things you post.

You really cannot fathom to walk a mile in either your friends shoes, or his wife's shoes either.

And I would probably guess that your best friend would not appreciate your posting about his marriage either.  It is not really a very "friendly" kind of action.

Marriage is something that takes effort every day.  Not all people are great fits for each other, and sometimes it takes YEARS to get that figured out.

Your posting makes me laugh to myself a little, and makes me a little sad, too.

Batman55 Wrote:

Out of curiousity, Korrigan... why must you give GuessWho such a hard time...?

Honestly, I was very hesitant to respond to Batman55's question because I think that he may be misinterpreting and I do not want to argue with him.

GuessWho is very willing and able to defend his thoughts and ideas, and does so, on a regular basis.  He excels at putting forth his thoughts and ideas.  Though I often do not understand them, I always read his posts and try to learn from him and his unique points of view.

This post was no different.  GuessWho was speaking about his friend's marriage.  I thought it important to point out a few things:

1)  GuessWho has never been married, and I do not believe he co-habitates with his current relationship, so I do not believe he has "marriage-like" experiences in that way either.  That makes it difficult for him to understand his friend's marriage, or really any marriage, which brings me to my next point,

2)  Unless you are in the marriage, you have no idea about the problems/struggles they are experiencing, nor the joys/wonderful moments they are experiencing.  You just do not know.  So it is unfair to say that they should "appreciate their marriage", as we have no idea what it is really like.

3) I personally do not consider it a very kind act to come onto an internet forum and speak of your friends' marriage in such a way, unless of course, he had consent to do so, and the friend knew what he was posting.  It seems cruel, to both his friend and his friend's wife, to judge their marriage as having "ice in that relationship, I've seen it persist, ice ages".  It would upset me if I were his friend.

I hope that GuessWho gets to experience a marriage of his own, when he is ready, if that is something he wants.

To speak of GuessWho's further comment

GuessWho Wrote:

Aside from apologizing for sounding like a Rick Springfield song, most of us Aspies do feel angry at the inevitable injustice we will face in matters of intimate relationships.

Very few NTs are willing (or capable?) of trying to meet us in intimate meetings. It doesn't make much of a difference whether they are willing or capable. Free will means we cannot make them do anything, other than a very LOW KEY attempt at awareness in the matter. The last thing we want is NTs in it for the wrong reason.

I have been married for an Aspie man for 14 years, together for 15.  He is my best friend and I cannot even think of what my life would have been like without him.  That said, it has not been easy.  We connect on things differently, and we BOTH have to be willing to take the extra time to understand each other.

HOWEVER, I think that goes for most relationships, as humans are not cookie cutters.  You can hear from a gazillion lonely people and they will say that there is an injustice in relationships.  Only the thin girls get a guy, only the rich men get a girl, etc.  There is always a "reason" why it is so difficult.  And most of the time, the reason the people list is not about THEM but is about the other people, the outside world.

You have to be happy and accepting of yourself before you can be happy and accepting of anyone else.  What you do not find within, you will never find without.

Korrigan Wrote:

Batman55 Wrote:

Out of curiousity, Korrigan... why must you give GuessWho such a hard time...?

Honestly, I was very hesitant to respond to Batman55's question because I think that he may be misinterpreting and I do not want to argue with him.

GuessWho is very willing and able to defend his thoughts and ideas, and does so, on a regular basis.  He excels at putting forth his thoughts and ideas.  Though I often do not understand them, I always read his posts and try to learn from him and his unique points of view.

This post was no different.  GuessWho was speaking about his friend's marriage.  I thought it important to point out a few things:

1)  GuessWho has never been married, and I do not believe he co-habitates with his current relationship, so I do not believe he has "marriage-like" experiences in that way either.  That makes it difficult for him to understand his friend's marriage, or really any marriage, which brings me to my next point,

2)  Unless you are in the marriage, you have no idea about the problems/struggles they are experiencing, nor the joys/wonderful moments they are experiencing.  You just do not know.  So it is unfair to say that they should "appreciate their marriage", as we have no idea what it is really like.

3) I personally do not consider it a very kind act to come onto an internet forum and speak of your friends' marriage in such a way, unless of course, he had consent to do so, and the friend knew what he was posting.  It seems cruel, to both his friend and his friend's wife, to judge their marriage as having "ice in that relationship, I've seen it persist, ice ages".  It would upset me if I were his friend.

I hope that GuessWho gets to experience a marriage of his own, when he is ready, if that is something he wants.

To speak of GuessWho's further comment

GuessWho Wrote:

Aside from apologizing for sounding like a Rick Springfield song, most of us Aspies do feel angry at the inevitable injustice we will face in matters of intimate relationships.

Very few NTs are willing (or capable?) of trying to meet us in intimate meetings. It doesn't make much of a difference whether they are willing or capable. Free will means we cannot make them do anything, other than a very LOW KEY attempt at awareness in the matter. The last thing we want is NTs in it for the wrong reason.

I have been married for an Aspie man for 14 years, together for 15.  He is my best friend and I cannot even think of what my life would have been like without him.  That said, it has not been easy.  We connect on things differently, and we BOTH have to be willing to take the extra time to understand each other.

HOWEVER, I think that goes for most relationships, as humans are not cookie cutters.  You can hear from a gazillion lonely people and they will say that there is an injustice in relationships.  Only the thin girls get a guy, only the rich men get a girl, etc.  There is always a "reason" why it is so difficult.  And most of the time, the reason the people list is not about THEM but is about the other people, the outside world.

You have to be happy and accepting of yourself before you can be happy and accepting of anyone else.  What you do not find within, you will never find without.

Very wise post, very well thought out. Some very good advice in there, I think.

Batman, that was also a very nice way to ask Korrigan on behalf of GuessWho.

GuessWho Wrote:

Leaving them anonymous didn't make it right. I'm sorry.

And I am also sorry I even so much as felt (let alone expressed, even if I had not) a wish that I was married to someone very much like the woman in question. The Christians would immediately recognize that as covetousness and that is a sin.

And you know what, GuessWho, THIS is EXACTLY why I appreciate you and enjoy reading your posts, even if I do not always understand them.

You have listened to my points of view several times, and you even bought a book I suggested (other thread entirely). You realize that you are human and that you (and me and everyone else) have a lot more to learn during our time on earth.

Thank you.

Korrigan Wrote:

GuessWho Wrote:

Leaving them anonymous didn't make it right. I'm sorry.

And I am also sorry I even so much as felt (let alone expressed, even if I had not) a wish that I was married to someone very much like the woman in question. The Christians would immediately recognize that as covetousness and that is a sin.

And you know what, GuessWho, THIS is EXACTLY why I appreciate you and enjoy reading your posts, even if I do not always understand them.

You have listened to my points of view several times, and you even bought a book I suggested (other thread entirely). You realize that you are human and that you (and me and everyone else) have a lot more to learn during our time on earth.

Thank you.

Guess who - Maybe you can think of it as more of a self-actualization technique - where you visualize the feeling you want, the sort of relationship you want (as you recognized it) and therefore are Open to the cosmic forces sending it to you. Or in the religious vein, ask and it you shall receive. Only you (and God) know whether or not you had covetnous. I didn't spot it nor was I looking for it.

There are no effective legal recourses for unrequited love.

You CAN complain. That is like throwing stones at soldiers. Fat lot of good that will do you. Especially against an armored personnel vehicle. (But what else can Palestinians do without guns, I guess?)

Other angry Arabs lash out with terrorism. Some angry guys lash out with rape or domestic violence. Terrorism is an international crime, compared with those kinds of interpersonal violent crimes. Nobody is going to say those are right, nobody can justify them, there is no excuse for them... sociologists write papers on them trying to find out what risk factors help them happen without making value judgments.

We cah hope that the Palestinians, anyway, get international justice and protection, maybe in our lifetime.

srp07 Wrote:

Frankly I feel a bit disturbed, as a woman, by your mention of "legal" recourses.

DogBrain Wrote:

It's called "being a drama queen".

I want to be a queen! Can I get a crown?

alectrum Wrote:

*rumages in attick* aha! *hands over pretty silver thing*

Here's one with a nice saphire in it to match your eyes. Smile

Yay, I have always been told I was a drama queen, now I can prove it! Smile

Thank you alectrum!

tenaciouscj Wrote:

What does all this Palestinian stuff have to do with love anyway?

All is fair in love and war

All  is fair in love and war I mean, and both are rife with injustice as a result- count on it

Or would you prefer "Anything Goes" being sung in Indiana Jones The Temple of Doom?  Anything goes is often meant to sum up love.

World War II also summed up anything goes.... in the late stages, you could burn Tokyo to the ground, firestorms in German or Japanese cities, Curtis Lemay's low level incendiary raids, and then the atom bomb strikes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  And the Japanese used biological warfare in China.  With the caveat that the major powers did not use poison gas on each other because they all had it.

I can't get it out of my head now, pretty co-star with Harrison Ford, dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah Anything Goes.

Aeolienne Wrote:

Why have I been dragged into this? Rolleyes

Not sure, but you can borrow my crown if you want to *shows Aeolienne pretty silver crown with sapphires*

Because Aeolienne, you are a beautiful woman who doesn't have a husband or boyfriend, contrasted with a beautiful woman who has a husband, in a difficult marriage.

So is etheral.

I was hoping _________ could learn from a woman like you how lucky she is.

Aeolienne Wrote:

GuessWho Wrote:

My best friend and his wife have been married nearly 13 years.  I've not only seen ice in that relationship, I've seen it persist, ice ages

I wish folks like Tim Homer and Batman would tell folks like my best friend to appreciate being married.  How'd you love it IF you were married to a 35 year old petite blond who keeps a good diet, college educated, no kids, gives the impression she would make a cuddly wife, Wonder Woman when it comes to thrifty living, and (drawback?) maintains a firm Christian/moral/religious/possibly Republican identity.

I wish folks like Aeolienne and etheral would folks like his wife to appreciate being married too, kids or not.  How'd you love it IF you were married to a 39 year old buff outdoorsy Mr. Fix It (he looks a helluva lot better than I do especially when we're both in swim trunks) who does electrical wiring for a living (has also done multi-level marketing, pesticide spraying, selling and installing alarm systems, and what he trained for, teaching middle school science).  He does not believe in divorce, ever.  If he spends too much time on XYZ project around the house he is misguided, not freezing her out, maybe he thinks he is improving the resale value of the home.  He does not have a problem with smokes or beer, she has an attitude problem about beer and cigs, and I know she has an attitude about obesity in a woman's mate, so I presume she keeps the place relatively free of snacks too.

Why have I been dragged into this? Rolleyes

Guesswho, you might want to duck!

Sometimes I wish I was English.

1.  You are English Aeolienne (more correctly British, the United Kingdom)
2.  I watched Sicko and Britain has a superior health care system, paid for with higher taxes, but has a better attitude toward caring for its weaker citizens.  Also, Britain does not impose its will willy nilly on other countries, usually works with coalitions in military operations, seems willing to join Kyoto climate treaty, opposes capital punishment, invests in mass transit and conservation and alternative energy, and seems sophisticated in ways America is not

One problem
1. I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN THE UNITED STATES, to parents born and raised in the United States, and I have never traveled outside it.  (Mom's parents were born in Finland and in Michigan, and their parents all born in Finland.  Dad's ancestors have been in America from England since 1635  Marsh).
2.  The answer to a country's troubles is not to run from them, unless the country is a totalitarian regime that kills dissent literally.  Nazi Germany justified emigration.  America does not.

2.

Forgive me how that sounded Aeolienne. Because I was hoping he _____ could learn from ME how lucky HE is.

GuessWho Wrote:

I was hoping _________ could learn from a woman like you how lucky she is.

Wilhemina

Wilhemina

atypical

Wilhemina

atypical

Shrek

Wilhemina

Wilhemina

Shrek

Shrek

Wilhemina

Shrek

Marcia

Shrek

Shrek