Aspies For Freedom

Full Version: The Failure of "Pro-Cure": a Personal Attestment
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I am about to tell my story, and although it may seem lengthy at times, I have done my best to keep it as concise as possible.  So please read through the whole thing, because every word is important to the final point.

Anyway...to make a long story short, when I was a little kid, I was a total freak.  My kindergarten teacher despised me.  My first grade teacher liked me, but she was mostly interested in protecting me.  This is probably due to the fact that I used to hide under my desk when I was overwhelmed or upset about something.  I was probably the most eccentric kid in class.

Although I outgrew such things, I continued to be a loner and weirdo throughout 8th grade (which, by the way, was the worst year of my life).   High school was a little better .  However, although I became friends with popular people for a short time, I basically ended up back where I started.  In 10th grade, I wanted to see a psychiatrist, because it was obvious that something was wrong with me.  

My parents, being the kind, cooperative (more the most part) people that they were, took me to a shrink.  I was then diagnosed with Asperger’s Syndrome, a high-IQ, high-functioning, form of autism.  In a nutshell, that meant that I was smart and mostly competent, but unable to socialize in the same way that most people can.  He treated me (not to cure the disorder, but to help me cope with it) for the remainder of the year.  Although I learned a few valuable things, it basically did nothing.

Throughout high school, I saw a total of three psychiatrists.  Again, I continued to be, for lack of a better term, “socially retarded,” although I did make a few adjustments along the way.  Most people would not have recognized me as “weird” right off the bat, even though I could not hold a long-term relationship, with girls at any rate.
I went to college in a different part of the country, basically in the same position.  However, I was happier, because I always saw this area as a better place, with more opportunities and more social, like-minded people than in the place where I grew up.  I converted to Christianity this year as well, and spent most of my time with the conservative Christian group at my school.  I was neither admired nor excluded in this group.  They tolerated me, but any admiration I got was due to the entertainment I provided with my exciting “randomness” (which was not on purpose).  Overall, they tolerated me, but this was it.

The following fall, I went back to my parents’ place for the summer.  The most significant day of this summer was May 31st, 2005.  I had just come home from a long day’s work (working with autistic children, which was my job at the time) and I came home to face my mother.  Don’t get me wrong; she is generally a nice person, and was more tolerant of my weirdness than 95% of parents would have been.  However, she also likes to push people’s buttons.  It happened that on that day, my grandma (who lived with us) had been caught cleaning my room that day when she had been repeatedly told not to.  My mother had gotten irrationally enraged at this and screamed at the top of her lungs, which made my grandma bawl her eyes out.

My mother first told me how angry she had been.  She then proceeded to tell me how badly she wanted me to clean my room myself.  She then told me how she had just read an article that indicated how strongly people judge others (supposedly) based on their living environments.  Next, she said fifteen words I will never forget: “If you’ve got shit all over your room, you’ve got shit all over your life.”  

This was when I realized it was hopeless for me.  I understood what she was saying: “you’re a mess.”  Unfortunately, being an Asperger’s sufferer, this was impossible for me to disagree with.  I realized I had to give up.  At that moment, I made the firm decision that I would no longer have a social life, and that I would simply focus on other things.  This was difficult for me to accept at first, but I did not see any other way out.  Every day that summer, I would simply go to work, go home, play on my computer, and go to bed.  

As I returned to college that following summer, it was even more difficult for me to accept this.  I remembered all the wonderful social interactions, and possibilities, I had encountered the previous year.  I had to accept that they were no longer possible.

However, on September 12th, 2005, I came across the most miraculous thing that had ever happened to me.  I was surfing online and came across an ebook online called "Change Your Personality: Cure Asperger’s By Becoming a Completely Different Person" by Mark Lorne.  At first, I was very skeptical and sent him an email.  I told him that I didn’t see how someone could cure a chemical imbalance in his brain by simply acting differently.  However, he convinced me otherwise.

In a nutshell, he made a few very convincing points.  He explained that we cannot make any definite statements about Asperger’s and the brain, because we really understand very little about our brain neurology.  Also, he mentioned that just because I had not yet found a solution did not mean that a solution did not exist.  So I examined his offer and, given that the ebook cost only twenty dollars to download (with a money-back guarantee), I decided to give it a shot.

Mark’s book mostly contained very simply, common-sense notions.  They are based on the concept of psychological conditioning, the idea that one can change his entire belief system and behavioral habits by retraining his brain.  One of his teachings was simply the idea that individual rejections are no loss.  This gives readers the opportunity to talk to anyone and try to make friends with them, without worrying about the outcome.  Another was that, when talking in a social group, you simply must keep talking with confidence, no matter how meaningless your comments are.   A third point in his book was that if you want to be popular and admired, you must make an effort to make friends with those at the top of the social ladder.  Perhaps the most significant pieces of Mark’s advice was to stop “talking to yourself.”  In other words, do not debate past or future words/actions with yourself; simply move on and focus on the present.  This book completely changed my world view, as he intended.

After that, I did a 180 degree turn in many ways.  I adopted the mindset that popularity is a good thing, and that anyone who says otherwise is simply jealous (frankly, I will always believe this).  I also realized that anything is possible, and that my diagnosis was not a sign of a permanent disability. Most importantly, I believed that Asperger’s is not a permanent disorder, if it a legitimate disorder at all. His methods began to work very well for me.

Within  a couple of months, my Christian group went from tolerating me to loving me.  I was the heart and soul of their social life.  One of the girls in this group (who was very neurotic herself, but a neurotypical girl nevertheless) fell head-over-heels for me, saying that I was better than any guy she had ever met.  I was amazed at this turnaround in my life.  Throughout the next several months, I made friends with  countless people on my campus, from all different backgrounds.  I even received a bid (which I graciously turned down) from the music fraternity on campus; I was not a musician, but they all enjoyed my company and wanted me to be a part of their group.

Throughout the next several months, my life was more of the same.  I was happier than I had ever been.  In addition, my religious views changed drastically later that year (I eventually became an atheist, which I am now).  That May, I ended up “hooking up” with a girl for the entire month.  Although she was not that attractive, she was crazy about me, and she opened up even more social opportunities for me.

This was when I began working on the material by David DeAngelo.  He is an author/speaker who focuses on making men more attractive to women.  He addresses everything from the “inner game” (personal confidence, resilience, etc.) to body language (appearing confident and in control) to men’s actual interactions with women (being cocky, funny, secure, indifferent, etc.).

The following year (my junior year), I hung out with ultra-liberal hippies for a while (perhaps as an overcompensation for being with conservative Christians for so long).  I made friends with everyone in that social group as well.  Although I had no desire to be one of them, they simply strengthened  my paradigm: that I could connect with any type of person I wanted to, and that I was truly a socially successful person.  

In addition, David DeAngelo’s materials appeared to be working very well for me.  I was attracting far more women (when they first met me) than the average guy.  I also made out with a good dozen girls, although they were mostly the hippie type.  I knew that I could attract much more attractive, popular, girls.  

Later that year, I decided to take it to yet another level and join a social fraternity.  I figured that it would give me connections with both popular guys (which Mark Lorne said was a good thing) and attractive sorority girls.  I knew that if only I could become popular among these people, this would prove once and for all that an ex-Aspie could become a popular, preppy, social person.  I did not simply want to become an average person, but I wanted to be envied by the average person like the Aspeger’s person envies the average person.  My goal was to open up an institute after I graduated, that treated Asperger’s, not as a permanent disorder, but as something that could be overcome (which I had done).  I opposed the Autism Rights Movement, because I saw autism as something that could be eradicated, just like anorexia.  I realized this would piss off people like Tony Attwood (the so-called leading world expert on Asperger’s), but that would make my victory even more satisfying.

Back to the story: I ended up receiving a bid from the fraternity of my choice.  I was convinced that this was the final solution, so I pledged faithfully.  Unfortunately, pledging is very much like boot camp.  It is designed to break you down and identify all your weak points.  Because of this, my “social awkwardness” was brought to the surface by the active members.  I was somewhat discouraged, as this had not happened to me since before I bought Mark’s book.  I even developed an acute speech problem (stuttering, mispronouncing words, etc.) that I had never experienced in my life.  The harder I tried not to do this, and the more my brothers asked me why I talked so weird, the worse it got.  This was likely due to the anxiety induced by the intense pressures of pledging.  However, I was determined to reach my goal of overcoming Asperger’s, so I did not give up.  After five brutal weeks, I became an active member.

The following year (my senior year), I returned to school with excitement.  There were already a good number of hot sorority girls who had shown interest in me.  I was confident that, with a combination of Mark Lorne’s and David DeAngelo’s materials, I could make one of them into my girlfriend.  I was, however, a bit apprehensive about the fraternity, as a number of members still looked down on me and enjoyed giving me a hard time.  Neverthleless, I approached the group with much more confidence and assertiveness than I had during my junior year.  This changed things drastically; I became good friends with nearly every one of my fraternity brothers.  I also made contact with a good number of hot girls (both old and new) who flirted with me.  Things were going pretty well.

However, one of my brothers still looked down on me with little respect.  Although he was fond of me, he enjoyed pushing my buttons, especially in front of others.  This made it a bit harder to succeed socially when he was around, especially with women.  I also began to grow frustrated when females lost interest in me after a short time, before I was able to have sex with them.  However, I was convinced that I simply hadn’t learned all the skills yet, so I kept plugging on, with confidence that I would succeed.

Eventually, the school year ended, and it was time for spring break.  I was slightly discouraged, since I had made out with a total of one girl the entire year (in contrast with an estimate of fifteen the previous year).  However, I rationalized that this was because I had set higher standards for myself, and that I was only seconds away from victory.

Another thing that disappointed me was the nature of the fraternity.  It turned out that this was considered the “weird fraternity” (ie. the place where many socially stigmatized people go).  One of my goals in joining a fraternity had been to join the popular crowd, so joining this group had backfired.  I thought that receiving a bid was a sign of overcoming weirdness, when in reality, I was invited to this specific group partly because of the weird traits I still had left over.  There was even a new guy that joined the group who nearly (if not completely) met the diagnosis for Asperger’s.  I thought to myself, If only I had joined a different one, I would be much further along by now.


That spring break, I went to a hotel/casino for the all-school end-of-the-year party that most socially successful people attend.  Only two of my fraternity brothers were there, and they were the cooler ones.  I thought of this as my big chance to break free and live as if I had joined a more mainstream, popular fraternity.

I had a decent time there, since I mostly stuck with the people I knew (my brothers, their girlfriends, etc.)  However, this trip was also a major reality check for me.  Several of the girls who I had always wanted to hook up with were there.  I realized that I could not possibly go up and talk to them, nor could I dance with them like most of the guys there.  Although I tried my best, I could not hold a long enough conversation to get them into bed.

I then came to a hard realization.  I had read and listened to all of David DeAngelo’s materials.  However, because of my past, I had not developed the skills necessary to attract these girls for a long-term (or even short-term) relationship.  I realized that there was no way around this; most people cultivate these skills throughout their childhood, but I had never been able to do this.  Therefore, there was no way to become “normal” at this point in my life.  It is impossible for someone like me to truly catch up.

I concluded that I would have to return back to the mindset I had before I ever read Mark’s book in my sophomore year.  Although I had developed some superficial skills, which tricked people into thinking I was normal, this was simply not the same as being normal.  I determined that I would have to focus my life on work and material accomplishments, rather than relationships or social success.  This was a 180 degree turn from how I had been living for the last three years.  

It also happened that my fraternity formal was taking place at this time.  I had agreed to go, so I went for a night, only to spend time with the brothers.  A couple of them had “dates” (ie. female friends who had agreed to come with them), who seemed to be interested in me.  Still, I had made my decision about women, and did not expect to “hook up” with any of them.  However, one of them continued to show interest in me, and I talked with her for quite some time.  That night (due to the circumstances), I ended up crashing in the same bed as this girl and her date.

That night, I made out with this girl.  This was the first time in months I had gotten any “action.”  The next morning, I was satisfied.  Although I had to leave then, I realized there was hope.  When I least expected it, I proved to myself that I did have the ability to keep a woman attracted to me and get physical with her.  All of my previous social goals returned, and I was relieved.

A few days went by, and I thought I was in good shape.  However, when my brothers returned, one of them informed me of something very unpleasant: she had been really creeped out by me kissing her.  I realized that she likely was never attracted to me.  Furthermore, I had been unable to read her body language and know that she did not want me to kiss her.  No amount of training had cured this social ineptitude.  Once again, my mindset changed, this time for good.

I now realize the truth, and this will stay forever.  Here are a few of things I now know:
- I may or may not have clinical Asperger’s Syndrome, but my lack of socializing in childhood means I will never reach the level of a normal person.
- I am better off having no real social life, and simply focusing on my career and other ambitions.  I may now have an advantage in these areas, since I will not be wasting any time on socializing.
- It is better for me, and for society, if I contribute to the areas where I naturally have skill.  For me, these include sales and management.  For some, it may be math or science.  For others, it may be computers.  In any case, all of us Asperger’s people have one thing in common: it’s not popularity or coolness.  
- Unlike I thought the summer before I read Mark’s book, I am not incompetent.  I am only incompetent in the social world.
- Whether we like to admit it or not, those of us with Asperger’s will never have a normal social life.  All we can do is accept this and move on.  
- Some time after I downloaded Mark Lorne’s book, it quite abruptly went off the internet.  He inactivated his email address.  This may very well mean that he came to the same conclusion as me: we can fool ourselves (and others) into thinking we can be normal.  In the long run, however, the truth will always prevail.  We are not neurotypical and never will be.
- I agree with the Autism Rights Movement on some things, such as the fact that autistic people have some strengths and some weaknesses.   However, I disagree with the idea that we should have the government fund “programs” for us, because this is patronizing and condescending.  
- I still have friends from my fraternity that I drink with, but all my friendships will stay at a superficial level.  
- Any time I see an attractive, preppy girl, I experience  a major paradox.  When we make eye contact, we can both tell we are each other’s “type.”  That is because I myself am reasonably physically attractive, and I still dress like a preppy.  However, I know that I could never date one of them, because there is no way to cover up my true self forever.  This forces me to move on without even trying . I am not interested in “lowering my standards” with women either, because all I can think about are the ones I am attracted to.  Therefore, I do not plan to ever get married, or even “get physical” with a woman again in my life.  This will make life less exciting, but I have accepted it as one of the disadvantages of Asperger’s for me.  
- Intellectually, I am an expert at attracting women.  If Brad Pitt were having trouble getting a woman to like him, I could tell him exactly what he was doing wrong.  However, this is very different from being able to do it myself.  
- I still believe that popularity is a great thing.  Being jealous of those who have achieved it will do no good.  It is far better to congratulate social, popular people on their successes and concentrate on what we can do well, whatever this may be.
- In a way, I have it worse than nearly everyone.  I have had a taste of the good life: I have experienced (although briefly) the benefits of being a normal, socially successful person and having attractive women drooling over me.  However, I now know that it was an illusion.  I must continue the rest of my life knowing that I will never truly experience the benefits of social success.
- In other ways, I have it better than most people.  I have tried my best to live a normal life.  Although I have failed, I will always know that I gave it my best shot.  I am one of the most outgoing, confident Asperger’s people you will ever meet.  Therefore, I know that if this experiment failed for me, it will likely fail for anyone else in my position.  If you suffer from Asperger’s, accept your weaknesses and find your strengths.  One thing I have gained from this experience is the opportunity to let other people learn from it.  I hope you will.  



In conclusion: I oppose "pro-cure," not because it is a bad idea, but because it is unrealistic: it sets people like me up for false hope, followed by disappointment.  You cannot take an adult Aspie and turn him into a social butterfly; it is like trying to turn a pig into an eagle.

Gareth Wrote:
Double posting this backs up my suspicions that you are merely spamming.


I posted it twice because I thought it was relevant to both topics.  But tell me, given that I just opened up and shared my entire life story for the first time, what else makes you consider this spamming?

Reality bites wrote: " idea that individual rejections are no loss.  This gives readers the opportunity to talk to anyone and try to make friends with them, without worrying about the outcome.  Another was that, when talking in a social group, you simply must keep talking with confidence,..." ******
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I am a (supposed NT- darn labels!) but the Idea that individual rejections are no loss - those words I appreciate and they speak to me.  This is how I think, I do not worry, I never have, in that way I have always been unemotional (I did/do care about my family/close connections though).  I repeat and respond to that portion of the post and the next line about confidence because I agree with Ivar T: " I wouldn't deny that aspies could learn techniques that could help them in social situations, but I wouldn't call that a cure. "
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My hope as a parent of three children - is for them to have that freedom as well - the freedom to first and foremost care about what feels right and good to them - I want them all - especially my aspie son - to not suffer needlessly - (by outer pressures) and as Chosen 1 repeated " [RealityBites wrote] If you suffer from Asperger’s, accept your weaknesses and find your strengths.
I remember reading somewhere in the forums,If you suffer from asperger's then you're doing it wrong.
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Life for everyone has difficulties, we all have to accept who we were born to be, Acceptance is key, and I think that attitude can make a big difference... then you WILL have confidence not alwasy that you are correct but that you are on the path you are for a reason.  Enjoy your life with confidence and your interactions, whether few or many, with confidence.  (AND confidence (not faked) does get the girl.)

to You Reality Bites - Your story, of the way you experienced your autism/aspergers, rings true from my perspective and I want to suggest that you read - Great Expectations by Charles Dickens - a life changing book for me.   Thanks for sharing. I hope you are blessed with understanding and acceptance.
A good friend asks only for your time, not your money.  
                  Quote by Super JK (my son)
(I just asked my son for the quote about friendship he always repeats that he got off a fortune cookie- it rung true to him (he hasn't any friends, maybe one, that isn't related to him.)

realitybites Quote:"- Whether we like to admit it or not, those of us with Asperger’s will never have a normal social life.  All we can do is accept this and move on."  
***************
What is normal? why even try to keep track, there are as many ways of having a life or a social life as there are people.

Ivar T Wrote:
I wouldn't deny that aspies could learn techniques that could help them in social situations, but I wouldn't call that a cure.


I think you raise a good point here.  I am certainly not saying that my work with Mark Lorne's book was useless--it has benefited me in many ways, from social interactions to career opportunities.  What I now disagree with is his notion that you can become an entirely different person with these techniques.

SwanGeese Wrote:

Or maybe you can't have a romantic relationship because you're a phony.


Not the case.  When I was following this book, I was under the impression that I could really overcome Asperger's; I was not trying to "cover it up" or be someone I wasn't.  I was simply following the author's advice word-for-word.  As I say in my story, I have now admitted that Asperger's is, in fact, part of who I am.  I also do not believe that you have to tell everyone about your AS as soon as you meet them; it is possible to have genuine friendships regardless.  However, this is different from purposely hiding it and pretending to be NT.  

SwanGeese Wrote:

If you want true friendships and romantic relationships, then start being yourself and quit being a coward. No it's not easy, but it sure beats crying in your beer.

I'm not going to resign myself to some depressing fate or throw a pity party for myself. I'm too busy living instead.


If I gave the impression of self-pity in this story, it was certainly not my intention.  Granted, it was my first time writing all this, less than 24 hours after I had admitted the truth to myself.  But given that for the last two years, I was doing my best to overcome my social difficulties (which semi-succeeded), and given that I have now decided to make the best out of my sitation, I don't really think "coward" is the right word.  

When I make the point that I will never be considered normal, I do not mean that I'm going to isolate myself and give up.  What I mean is that I am going to stop trying to live like a mainstream party animal.  This seems like something you would agree with.

I still have true friends that I did make during this phase, and most of these people would not stop being my friend if they knew about the diagnosis.  When I mean that they will remain superficial, I do not mean that I am forced to hide something...I mean that I prefer to have a number of casual friends over one or two close friends who I share everything with.  

honestjohn Wrote:

Ivar T Wrote:
At first I though RealityBites was repeating what Matt_T wrote in this thread:

http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/showthread.php?tid=5503


Well that poster, form your suppleis link.. thanks IvarT,  seemed to say because he was able to act differently, he was misdiagnosed after all.  Seems different then one who could pretend to be NT for short bursts when there isn't alot of stress.  I know my son does really well - most will not notice any difference - at least under the right circumstances, interacting etc., .  Which rung true for me from reality's posts and many other aspies.  When stress or failures occur, then his difficulties really bubble up and anxiety and distress, external behaviors too, can go up exponentially without support.   it's me atypical



Yes, and up until my last epiphany, I also thought I was either misdiagnosed or had overcome it.  But now I see that I was doing what your son was doing.  I now understand why my fraternity thought I was weird but the groups I used to hang out with did not--because pledging caused stress and the difficulties of AS tend to come up more under stress.  

atypical Wrote:
to You Reality Bites - Your story, of the way you experienced your autism/aspergers, rings true from my perspective and I want to suggest that you read - Great Expectations by Charles Dickens - a life changing book for me.   Thanks for sharing.


Not a problem...I'm curious, what do you mean when you say that it rings true from your perspective?  Are you referring to your experience with your son?

[

atypical Wrote:
to You Reality Bites - Your story, of the way you experienced your autism/aspergers, rings true from my perspective and I want to suggest that you read - Great Expectations by Charles Dickens - a life changing book for me.   Thanks for sharing.


Not a problem...I'm curious, what do you mean when you say that it rings true from your perspective?  Are you referring to your experience with your son?
[/quote]


realitybites, Yes, I am referring to my experince with my son> However, I feel I am tuned into him but I do not profess to really know how he really truly experiences things - only from MY Perspective.  He is a great communcator though, and describes alot to me, and I listen carefully so I could imagine my son in many a situation and I think I know how he would do in many cases.


I guess you've learned now that trying to be "Another person" or someone you are not is just folly.  Congratulations on your own personal epiphany!

BardWolf - I thought the same thing - ;O)

Gareth Wrote:

RealityBites Wrote:

Gareth Wrote:
Double posting this backs up my suspicions that you are merely spamming.


I posted it twice because I thought it was relevant to both topics.  But tell me, given that I just opened up and shared my entire life story for the first time, what else makes you consider this spamming?


"Only $20 for <full name of author and full name of book>"


Ah, I see.  That makes sense, but here are two reasons why it doesn't follow:

1) I stated in the end of my thread that he removed his website and all opportunity to buy his book.

2) The final point of my story, and the reason why I joined this group, is the fact that I realized his theory is incorrect.

Gareth Wrote:
Generally, double-posting is rude at the very least. Especially when your post does not mention "Action against pro-cure groups", it's a personal story. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt however.


Lol, thanks.

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