Aspies For Freedom

A question has been posed as to whether having a generalist talent for Math (and "algorthymic logic" I suppose) makes it easier to learn social skills.  The theory is that someone with strong Math skills can  recognize and process patterns--while socializing--better than someone who has average or poor Math skills.

Therefore, the core question I'm asking is if those Aspies who are poor in Math/logic areas see themselves as "less socially able" than those who have a gift in Math/logic areas.

I'll try to approach an answer with a poll.  For this to be successful, I'll need a lot of people to answer.  And I'd like only the Aspergians among us (sorry, NTs) to answer.  I will keep it anonymous, so "poll away"!

I personally see maths as different from logic.  There are a few branches of maths, like algebra, where you need some logic to work it out, but basically I consider the two different.

I personally don't see how maths would be remotely useful for social skills, unless you happen to meet someone who gets off on doing sums.

Logic... well, yeah.  Kind of.  Maybe.  A bit. But only once you have the basic parameters of what is and isn't socially acceptable down pat.  Logic won't necessarily help you figure them out in the first place.  And no amount of logic is going to make you able to read tone of voice and body language, sorry.

I see my own social 'skills' (can something so crap be called a "skill"???) as a series of If>Then>Else rules based on experience.  It's more a combination of rote learning and experience than logic.

It's exactly like that, for me.  I don't see how someone could use a more complex formula than "If-then-else" for real-time socializing, you don't really get to skip a beat when you're out in the wilderness.

For me it's a matter of seeing how I did things in the past, what worked then, and how I can apply it the "here and now."  Rote learning and experience.

Being good at logic/Math or both isn't going to help you learn social skills at a faster rate than someone who sucks at both, in my opinion.

Can we have some more people vote in the poll, please?

Perhaps some of the Math-gifted could vote here, it's not a public poll, so no one will know who you are.

By the way, Zakkie, since you seem to think Math skills would be useful for socializing...  can you imagine any way that a gift for language (strong vocabulary, creative use of words, etc.) would help with socializing?  Can you "process social skills through words..."

Bear with me, Batman... you've just triggered a very faint memory re: language and social impact that may or may not be remotely useful.  I'll go Google stuff for an hour and report back if I find it.

I'm back.  The good news is I found what I was looking for, the bad news is I don't think it's particularly useful.

Here you go: http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&...vc#PPP1,M1

The bit that tickled my memory is in the introduction (page 3) is about words of Latin extraction versus words of Anglo Saxon derivation, and that the former tend to give a more formal, clinical sense than the latter, which are more emotionally charged.  "Liberty" versus "Freedom", for example.  

My theory, which isn't worth tuppence since it only occurred to me tonight, is that maybe using more of the simpler touchy-feely Anglo words and less of the more formal Latin would improve your emotional 'reach' to others.

Sorry, that was pretty useless.

I can't say that I feel math is a useful tool for socializing. If it is for some people, then good on them, but I personally don't get anything out of (conscious) mathematical thought.

Ethel, regarding the relationship between logic and mathematics: they are intricately intertwined. Some view math as purely logical (of course, the great project of logicism -- reducing mathematics to a long series of elementary logic -- seems to be impossible), others view logic as mathematical. In any event, you will not find any branch of math that doesn't use any form of logic. They are two sides of the same coin, analytical reasoning (if that is a good name for it; if you don't like the term "analytical reasoning", at least I hope you'll see what I'm referring to).

I voted that I was average at Math...
But my abilities vary widely in this area. I'm reasonably good at mental arithmetic, geometry and trigonometry; but terrible at algebra and calculus (anything that‘s abstract).
My social skills are good for an aspie…bad for an NT, They can also vary somewhat depending on my mood or how anxious I feel.

One thing that helps with developing social skills, in my opinion, is finding people intrinsically interesting.  (One of my problems, of course, is that there are a lot of people I don't find all that interesting....learning which niches to inhabit helps!)

If you're curious, and ask people good questions (i.e. ones that elicit answers that can keep the conversation going but not questions that bust their boundaries and make them freak out) then that helps.

Another thing, and this can be a hard one.....is self-confidence.  That is, the belief that you have a right to be here and that what you have to contribute is worthwhile.

I voted for average, by which I mean the basics; addition, withdrawal, division, multiplication, percent. I don't even know what Algebra is. Recently I thought about the number 1.254.743 whether it was a prime number or not. I proceeded to do it by mental arithmetics; dividing it with 3. That didn't work and after some hesitation I tried dividing it by 7. I should note that I had the number written down. It was a little tough to keep track of the digits and my head got sort of hot.

I'm semi-reclusive. I don't socialize very much and I never engage strangers in conversation. Some of my interests are somewhat original and I prefer to maintain them alone. Today I went out to a temporary ditch dug to lay down pipes. I spotted it yesterday and salvaged a small cache of old bottles. There seemed to have been a garbage dump there long ago. I found the remnants of a pile of newspapers and managed to peel them apart enough to read the date July 25, 1945. I took some photographs of the find.

Bit off topic.

If you don't even know what algebra is I should think you're below average (at least I hope so!).

Ok! I just didn't want to use the term "poor".

Usually I never make a spelling error.  Hmm.. I'll have to remember this one.

I'm sure there are times you misspell a word and can't believe you made the error...?

"I am average or poor in Math--I seem to socialize pretty well for an Aspie."

This one is the winner so far, with 6 votes.  How to interpret this, though?

It would seem to indicate that there may not be much to this theory, after all.  Who knows.

The sample size is too small and of course my wording is a bit arbitrary.  Oh well.. I did my best.

Although I cannot often tell what people are thinking or feeling, pretty much I do the exact same thing you mention here--use past experience and analyze new situations based on that--and yet, I'm useless at Math.  In fact I have some form of learning challenge in Math, it may or may not be Dyscalculia.

However, my social skills--overall--are not very good. I also suffer from terrible social anxiety and as mentioned above, I'm not able to tell what people think or feel too easily.  Could lack of Math skills be behind this somehow?  Who knows.