Aspies For Freedom

Why don't Americans want a national health plan?

More taxes.

A lot of Americans have this sort of disconnect in that they don't intuitivley realize that paying taxes actually benefits them.

I'm in Australia, where we have a free health system AND a private system. When you do your tax, you're asked if you have private cover, and if you don't you pay more tax. It depends on how much you earn - low income earners aren't slugged with extra tax, but people like me who COULD afford it but were too lazy to organise it do get charged. I'm in now!

The free system does cop a lot of flak and have long waiting times for some things (particularly dental and some surgery) but generally it means if you can't afford private coverage you're not just left to die in the street. And you can mix and match - my psychologist visits are paid for by the free system. However, when I had my wisdom teeth out, it was done through the private system.

DogBrain Wrote:

earthmonkey Wrote:

This unwillingness of the wealthy to pay taxes just promotes the divides between the rich and the poorer.

The wealthy will never pay taxes. The middle pays the taxes. The wealthy have the ear of government--even of leftist politicians. The poor have no money. So it's the working middle that pays for everything.

The wealthy pay taxes just like everyone else, and in fact often end up paying more since the % on income tax increases as income increases. Personally I view this as quite perverse - punishing someone for being successful via higher tax rates.

DogBrain Wrote:

Gareth Wrote:

DogBrain Wrote:

earthmonkey Wrote:

This unwillingness of the wealthy to pay taxes just promotes the divides between the rich and the poorer.

The wealthy will never pay taxes. The middle pays the taxes. The wealthy have the ear of government--even of leftist politicians. The poor have no money. So it's the working middle that pays for everything.

The wealthy pay taxes just like everyone else, and in fact often end up paying more since the % on income tax increases as income increases. Personally I view this as quite perverse - punishing someone for being successful via higher tax rates.

But isn't that what socialism--I mean "public aid" is all about--hurt the rich for daring to be rich?

Sadly, yes a lot of the time.

Anyway, back on topic......
Can someone post a link to the full text of the bill?

http://www.americanbenefitscouncil.org/d...s110th.pdf

USA has national health insurance already in the form of Medicare.  And people can choose their doctors.  Beneficiaries, workplaces, and employees all pay into the system.  The problems are a) that you have to be 65 and b) that doctors are under-reimbursed so many limit or don't take medicare patients.  This "access" problem might get worse as the number of primary care physicians continues to decline.

The current system is unfair.  If your job has health coverage for you and your family, you benefit.  If it doesn't, you lose.  In any system of this magnitude there are winners and losers.  If we switch to national health insurance, paid by higher taxes, there will still be winners and losers....just a different set of each.

I don't think that the current situation is tenable.  Our work insurance went up 30% this year (due to a lot of pregnancies).  At some point, employers will stop offering coverage.  To compensate, they'll have to increase wages, and that will create different problems for the economy.

Sat_Chit_Anand Wrote:

I agree with DogBrain.

As long as the sodding foetuses are expunged before the established limits within law, why should any of us be so arrogant to be aggrieved by what is essentially a woman's choice in a democracy?

Make it compulsory by law, force women to abort potentially autistic children and that is a different matter...

Test, screen and then sterilize/euthanase people with autistic genes or fully autistic people and that is a different matter, because you impinge upon the rights of the individual.

I really do not see the problem with screening and aborting potentially autistic foetuses, as long as it is within our already established limits.

Change the limits if you must, but why should autistic foetuses be a considered to be a special case if 'normal' foetuses are to be aborted with impunity by women who are simply too busy to have children?

Arrogance!

I am going to hang on in here, but this forum is bizarre and almost entirely leftist in orientation.

As a 'spectrum individual' who claims a fat wadge of benefits and lives the life of Riley at the taxpayers expense, I am going to break the mold and state that I do not care if people abort autistic foetuses.

Maybe there would then be MORE state benefits for ME, so that I can continue to have a 24/7/365 jolly at YOUR EXPENSE for the rest of my healthy, but entirely non-productive life.

Big Grin

You claim benefits and then say in the same post that you are healthy?
Other than that, you also seem to have gotten the impression we're calling for abortion of autistic foetuses to be made illegal. Point out where anybody has said this. What we are concerned about is women being pressured into abortion as soon as a prenatal test enters widespread use.

Best conspiracy theory ever:
We work for the "autism industry", right. When most commercial entities related to autism are selling quack treatments which we actively protest against.......

We're opposed to the development of a prenatal test because it's got massive abuse potential. So long as abortion is generally legal though it'd be hypocritical to push for it to be made illegal in the case of an autistic foetus.

What does "rude health" mean by the way?
As to this:

Quote:

As a 'spectrum individual' who claims a fat wadge of benefits and lives the life of Riley at the taxpayers expense, I am going to break the mold and state that I do not care if people abort autistic foetuses.

Maybe there would then be MORE state benefits for ME, so that I can continue to have a 24/7/365 jolly at YOUR EXPENSE for the rest of my healthy, but entirely non-productive life.

The fact you state that you intend to live off benefits for life and furthermore live a life of luxury while you admit you are fully capable is not just downright nasty (especially with the "YOUR EXPENSE" bit) but also potentially fraudulent if the benefits you receive are related to disability.

Well I happen to love serving my masters and mistresses.

*gets korrigan a coffee and kisses her feet*

omg we are SO psychic, you KNEW I was talking about you and other grrls Tongue

PM me for more flirtage if ye wish Tongue

KorriganToo Wrote:

Ian Wrote:

PM me for more flirtage if ye wish Tongue

Done. Wink

Get a room!

Sat_Chit_Anand Wrote:

Gareth Wrote:

Best conspiracy theory ever:
We work for the "autism industry", right. When most commercial entities related to autism are selling quack treatments which we actively protest against.......

What about the HUGE commercial entity which provides personal support services to autistic people? Fine, oppose the quacks, let them *chelate* themselves to kingdom come, but do not go about pretending that autistic people are cheap to run, because we require a lot of support which costs MONEY.

Quote:

We're opposed to the development of a prenatal test because it's got massive abuse potential. So long as abortion is generally legal though it'd be hypocritical to push for it to be made illegal in the case of an autistic foetus.

You sound as though you are making it up as you go along, pal.

Quote:

What does "rude health" mean by the way?

Are you taking the piss?

It is an idiom:

"If someone's in rude health, they are very healthy and look it."

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/id...ealth.html

Quote:

As to this:

Quote:

As a 'spectrum individual' who claims a fat wadge of benefits and lives the life of Riley at the taxpayers expense, I am going to break the mold and state that I do not care if people abort autistic foetuses.

Maybe there would then be MORE state benefits for ME, so that I can continue to have a 24/7/365 jolly at YOUR EXPENSE for the rest of my healthy, but entirely non-productive life.

The fact you state that you intend to live off benefits for life and furthermore live a life of luxury while you admit you are fully capable is not just downright nasty (especially with the "YOUR EXPENSE" bit) but also potentially fraudulent if the benefits you receive are related to disability.

Where did I say I was capable of anything? You keep putting words into my keyboard. I said I was healthy. Autistic people can live very long healthy lives even if we never earn a single penny or pay a single tax.

So please, Gareth, many thanks to you and everyone else.

There are some other reasons why I wish to leave:

Moderation on the forum is light, trolling is rife and this does inhibit logical rational discussion and creates a bad atmosphere.

The forum is not terribly user friendly. I prefer a v-forum format.

I am not entirely sure that I want to be part of a forum which has an agenda beyond being a resource for living autistic people. It seems grandiose and antithetical to political tolerance.

Thank you for being tolerant of me on this forum. I really appreciate that, however, opposing pre-natal testing is just going a little bit too far in the direction of the Flat Earth Society for my liking and I would like to my account to be closed forthwith.

Reine, I have seen Gattica and it was a scary film, but we cannot stop scientific progress without putting the next generation at a disadvantage. What we can do is fight to ensure that the next generation are the owners of their own future rather than mere serfs to a socialist or capitalist overlord. Reformers like the Quakers, William Morris did not want to block the progress of science, they wanted to create a less abstracted, more human system than what was in place.

BYE![/i]

"are you taking the piss?" is quite a nasty comment.
If you are healthy then I really do wonder why you claim benefits, as really there are only 3 legit reasons to claim benefits:

1 - permanent and crippling disability
2 - still young and a student (under the presumption you will start working after your studies)
3 - temporary incapacity

As to this:

Quote:

I am not entirely sure that I want to be part of a forum which has an agenda beyond being a resource for living autistic people. It seems grandiose and antithetical to political tolerance.

How exactly are we going to get accepted as just another minority group (and thus gain protection from discrimination) if we sit back and say "yeah, it's in no way prejudiced to abort autistic foetuses on virtue of autism alone".

Quote:

Thank you for being tolerant of me on this forum. I really appreciate that, however, opposing pre-natal testing is just going a little bit too far in the direction of the Flat Earth Society for my liking and I would like to my account to be closed forthwith.

Flat earth society - believe the earth is flat contrary to all the evidence and are rightly regarded as nuts
AFF - do not support abortion for the sole purpose of eliminating a minority group (note that even now woman often are pressured into abortion if there's a risk of the child being autistic, and there's still institutions where "patients" get forced abortions)

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How about suggesting that living autistic people help each other rather than depend upon wider NT society for support?

Nice idea (helping each other), though many autistics do not need support and just need to be left alone

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How about creating more possibilities for families with autistic children to help each other, via co-operative homeschooling, care and so forth?

Again, a good idea - but there's other things we need to do as well.

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That way, people might not want to abort autistic foetuses in the first place, and it might be more productive than trying to obtain minority status and become 'just another minority group' - your words not mine.

Yeah, just like black people overcame racism by helping each other and refusing all protection under the law against discrimination and like how gays managed to get homosexuality declassified as a mental illness. Oh wait....... that's not what happened is it?

Quote:

Capitalism and its twin evil socialism have created a greed driven society where the economically inactive are shunted away and kept at a mimimum standard of living. Perhaps we should be questioning this before asking that people willingly breed autistic children who will only be a burden to themselves and society under such a system.

Let's review this:
You think socialism and capitalism are both aspects of the same thing
You think all autistics are "econmically inactive" (or at least imply it)
You think all autistics are a burden to themselves and society

I'm quoting your own posts

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