Aspies For Freedom - Discrimination in the legal system

TheZach Wrote:

marieway Wrote:

Unfortunately one of these friends took my son with him on an excursion into some local woods and blew up some tree stumps.

My son, then 17, was charged as an adult with 6 felony counts. My son had no idea at the time that he was doing something wrong.

Um, sorry I'm going to have to say thats bullshit. He knew it was wrong and just because he has Aspergers doesent mean he should get away with that. Quit using his disability as a crutch - you sicken me.

Thought you were a Christian, TheZach. Maybe you could tell us how you reflect Christ in these comments...

Means you shouldn't be unsympathetic and nasty.

From what I've read here this boy and his family are in a pretty desperate situation, not only in terms of the (I think, ludicrous) seriousness of the charges, but also the threat of deportation. I don't see that they wish to use his diagnosis merely as a label to say that he should get away with anything, but rather to explain his situation and to seek mitigation for those reasons. I've read that aspies may be about 3 years behind their peers in terms of maturity and may find it difficult to come to sensible judgements about the company they keep. The fact that this boy has led a largely friendless life and has only recently fallen in with these friends could be taken to mean that his judgement about their actions was not as balanced as it might have been if he weren't aspie.

I think the attitude taken by the authorities is way over the top and personally don't see anything particularly serious about blowing up tree stumps. In Scotland, I think they would be dismissed as "daft boys" and given a talking to by the police and told not to do it again. The issue of having gunpowder would be the serious issue here, but legislation in the US is different on that count.

If I were his mother I would also be doing everything I could for my son, and I hope that things work out well for them all.

Korrigan Wrote:

One of the most important things I have learned in my life, and maybe someday you will learn it too, is that if you do not have anything nice to say, say nothing at all.

Seconded, most emphatically! That is actually what I came back to this thread to say!

TheZach Wrote:

Timelord Wrote:

Ethel Wrote:

Quote:

People with Aspergers are well capable of understanding consequences such as blowing up tree stumps or throwing rocks.

Some are. Some aren't. Life ain't simple.

Exactly, Ethel. Zach, you have no respect for the range of issues Aspies have with consequences - therefore I question your understanding of the effects of the condition. Do you - for example - understand the consequences of posting what you have?

Yes - I do understand the societal consequences and I am very open about what I have. If NTs dont want to be around me because Aspergers is part of me - then to put it bluntly fuck em - there not the people I want to be around anyway.

I asked you earlier in this thread, TheZach, and I'm too angry at the moment to go back and check...You say you are a Christian, so how have your words and thoughts in this thread mirrored Christ?

Who were the people that Jesus didn't "want to be around anyway"?!

TheZach Wrote:

Marcia Wrote:

TheZach Wrote:

Timelord Wrote:

Ethel Wrote:

Quote:

People with Aspergers are well capable of understanding consequences such as blowing up tree stumps or throwing rocks.

Some are. Some aren't. Life ain't simple.

Exactly, Ethel. Zach, you have no respect for the range of issues Aspies have with consequences - therefore I question your understanding of the effects of the condition. Do you - for example - understand the consequences of posting what you have?

Yes - I do understand the societal consequences and I am very open about what I have. If NTs dont want to be around me because Aspergers is part of me - then to put it bluntly fuck em - there not the people I want to be around anyway.

I asked you earlier in this thread, TheZach, and I'm too angry at the moment to go back and check...You say you are a Christian, so how have your words and thoughts in this thread mirrored Christ?

Who were the people that Jesus didn't "want to be around anyway"?!

So you justify attacking my charector by your lazyness to go back and and check to see that I replied to your thread. I have to say that you are being very stupid.

Ok.

1.  I am neither stupid nor lazy.
2.  I said I was angry, that's why I repeated my question without taking the time to go back and check it.
3.  I have now gone back and checked my question which was "Maybe you could tell us how you reflect Christ in these comments..."
4.  I knew you hadn't answered my question and having now checked your response, it was in fact, "Being Christian doesn't mean I have to tolerate people being idiots."
5.  That's why I repeated my question, which you still haven't answered.  All you have done is make increasingly offensive remarks to even more people.
6.  Asking a Christian how he reflects, or mirrors, Christ in his words is not an attack on that person's character.

Mahler5 Wrote:

TheZach Wrote:

Mahler5 Wrote:

Ethel Wrote:

Oh, good, another thread disolves into a religious flame war. I hope the mother in question gets the help she needs from a bloody good lawyer, now that her thread's been hijacked and beaten to a bloody pulp.

"Fuck 'em" isn't a phrase I associate with Jesus, to be honest. Didn't he go on about tolerance, or kindness, or something like that? I see precious little that that exhibited by the self-identified "Christian" here.

Ethel, you're right.

I am fairly certain Jesus never said "fuck 'em"... though he may have FELT like it at times..
Didn't he say 'Judge not' and "forgive them- for they don't know what they are doing" or something like that?
Plus he said a whole bunch of other lovely non judgemental things...

Bet if he posted in this thread he would tell this mom to get a good lawyer and wish her the best...

Maybe Marcia could help me out here with my ignorance of the bible quote-she seems to have a good handle on Christian kind of things here..

But Jesus did also go around throwing tables when he was upset as well. What I'm upset about is this mother blaming her sons dumbass choices on Aspergers - but of course you idiots want to turn this into a religious pissing contest.

Well, I'll be blowed. He was human? Maybe he was an aspie? Maybe he should have gone to jail for such table manners? Put to death for this?
Who knows. Who cares?
Point is you profess to be a Christian and then don't act like one. Stop the name calling. Simple. Help or pick on another thread.

You are entitled to your opinion-however wrong you may be. Your posts that call people idiots, stupid, sickening, dumbasses, et al will be reported.

You and your gang of mightier then everyone else (which I have refered to as idiots previsoulsy) started these personal attacks and I am just suppose to accept this bullshit. Its people like you that makes me so fucking furious.

Oh shut up. You and your friends were the one that hijacked this thread and turned it into a religious pissing contest to attack me.

Mahler5 Wrote:

TheZach Wrote:

Oh shut up. You and your friends were the one that hijacked this thread and turned it into a religious pissing contest to attack me.

It's how you are disagreeing that is in question. Go ahead-disagree all you want.
For instance Gareth disagreed-he agreed with you yet he didn't feel the need to shame, blame, call names.

I felt that need as soon as you and your gang of idiots started to attack me.

Marcia Wrote:

TheZach Wrote:

Oh shut up. You and your friends were the one that hijacked this thread and turned it into a religious pissing contest to attack me.

Clearly, you're not prepared or able to listen to us or to the words of Saint Paul - a man who also got very angry on occasion, but was less abusive.

You've still not answered my question, but no matter.

Out of curiousity, what church is it that you're a member of?

I'm not going to let you hijack this thread for your personal and idiotic games any longer.

Korrigan Wrote:

Gareth Wrote:

TheZach didn't bring up the religious discussion. Even if judging other's in their stupidity is non-christian, he was right to do so. Whether or not that makes him a hypocrite in the religious sense is completely off-topic for this discussion.

TheZach and the original poster deserve apologies here for the religious arguments.

Do not forget that TheZach should apologize for calling the op names and being incredibly rude. He has a right to his opinions, but calling people idiots, stupid, etc. is not ok.

TheZach opened himself up to a religious discussion by bringing up his religion on other threads. When he began to insult, that started a trend that is difficult to stop. If he opened up that door, he should reap the rewards. Being sanctimonious has its price.

I trust BobB's opinions on this matter as he seems to know what the heck he is talking about and I wish the original poster the best with her situation.

Some people just dont get a clue

BobB Wrote:

TheZach Wrote:

Timelord Wrote:

It is perfectly feasible for an Aspie who doesn't understand consequences to see blowing up stumps as fun - but not realise it was wrong for whatever the reason. Unless he was TOLD (as you have been and as I have been - and probably many other Aspies as well).

Get it now?

No - I dont. People with Aspergers are well capable of understanding consequences such as blowing up tree stumps or throwing rocks. Sounds like teenagers will be teenagers to me.

TheZach,
  And if 'teenagers will be teenagers', why has this become a *federal* case?

  This is something that should be - at most - a fairly petty charge of vandalism. What was damaged? A few tree stumps. *Not* healthy trees, just dead *stumps*!

  Now, explain the concept of 'consequences' in a way that justifies federal felony charges against a kid who did *nothing* wrong, except to follow a 'friend' into something that the *'friend'* was doing, if you would, please...

  Would this kid have blown up stumps on his own?

  No.

  I don't think it would have even *occurred* to him to blow up a stump *unless* someone had said something like, "Hey, want to see something cool?" and *showed* it to him!

  So why should this kid *not* get the benefit of the doubt, *especially* since the *adult* (19) who actually committed the crime was allowed to plead down?

  -BobB

Its called Homeland Security. When you commit crimes of a certain level as an immigrant your going to tend to get lots of attention from three letter agencies. When your dealing with explosives your already screaming hey ATF, FBI and ICE come look at me!

It may be a double standard, but when you come to this country as an immigrant you are put under a magnifiying glass as frankly you really don't have a right to be here, as your not a citizen. The United States does not have to grant anyone citizenship last I checked. - but thats for another thread.

From the parts of the story that were being told (I don't think were getting it all), I'm not suprised this popped up on some homeland security radar as a possible threat.

Mahler5 Wrote:

Gareth Wrote:

Korrigan Wrote:

[quote=GuessWho]
Can we give Zach a - break?

TheZach didn't bring up the religious discussion. Even if judging other's in their stupidity is non-christian, he was right to do so. Whether or not that makes him a hypocrite in the religious sense is completely off-topic for this discussion.

TheZach and the original poster deserve apologies here for the religious arguments. Equal rights == equal responsibilities

There should be equal penalties then.

The discrimination here is that the instigator of the 'crime' is able to plead to a lesser charge-get probation- while the OP's son is not able to do this-indeed it isn't even being considered- and instead is being threatened with deportation.

He is an 'alien' but he is also Autistic. Perhaps he is being made an example of here not only because he is not a natural citizen -but because he is Autistic... and they view him as a threat--along the lines of 'ya just never know what those Autistic people might do'...etc.

Apparantly if he had 'donated a kidney'-the prosecutor would have listened more to the OP-and there could have possibly be some mitigating factors in his case..
( why? so he would be able to stay in the same country as his kidney?)
So it seems odd...

Seems to me that the bigger threat is the kid who has done it before, bragged about it, and possibly will do it again-and he's conveniently able to stay in the country..

I dont think there is any discrimination on basis of disability here. If a NT was to come into the United States and play with explosives why attempting to get citizenship it would set off the same red flags, and they would also be deported.

As far as I know the United States is not obligated to give any alien petitioning for citizenship actual citizenship and violation of laws by an alien is grounds for deportation - (but I'm not an expert)

Just to give some reference here. This is how a NT 17 year old citizen was treated just recently around these parts:

Quote:

KALAMAZOO -- A felony charge has been authorized against a 17-year-old student accused of writing a threatening note that prompted a lockdown Monday at Comstock High School, authorities said.

Robert Thomas Yarbrough, of Kalamazoo, is charged with a false report or threat of terrorism, said Carrie Klein, chief assistant prosecutor for Kalamazoo County. If convicted, he could face up to 20 years in prison and/or a $20,000 fine and be ordered to reimburse police costs to respond to the threat, Klein said.

Kalamazoo County sheriff's investigators have said Yarbrough admitted to writing a note that threatened gun violence and then placing it where it would be found in hopes that school would be dismissed early. Yarbrough was given a 10-day suspension Wednesday, school officials said.

After he serves the suspension, a hearing will be held by Comstock Public Schools' assistant superintendent, who may ask that Yarbrough appear before the district Board of Education for further punishment that could include expulsion.

The high school was put on lockdown just before 9 a.m. Monday after the note was found in a restroom. Police searched students, lockers and the building. No weapons were found, and students were let out shortly before 1 p.m.

Korrigan Wrote:

Gareth Wrote:

TheZach was not attacked for his use of profanity, which would have been legit. He was attacked for alleged religious hypocrisy and for his viewpoint.

He was not attacked for his viewpoint, rather, he was attacked for HOW HE STATED HIS VIEWPOINT. Which was aggressive, vulgar, and out of line.

The points about his religious hypocrisy were attempting to get him to be nicer and more pleasant while making his points.

Why dont you quit hijacking this thread and take this to the 'Hey I dont want to listen to the forum admin' thread.