If the protests among athletes as well as people on the streets around the world are powerful enough maybe the countries that will participate (?) can put some pressure on the Chinese Regime through their diplomats. A boycott of products is trickier as China produces a lot of products very cheap for Westerners in particular. The average factory worker in China is basically enslaved.
The International Olympic Committee has just declared that the Torch Run will go on (joseph goebbels came up with the idea for the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin).
I still think it would be a good thing for AFF to publicly call for a boycott of the Olympics citing our understanding of the downtrodden. In many ways the high functioning person in society is downtrodden by ignorance, fear, discriminated in the workplace and at school in a myriad of ways.
It's a stretch but Gareth complains about AFF not getting any publicity.
Everyone read up on what is going on in Tibet. It is particularly vicious: Chinese troops at one point years ago even forced monks to have sex with Buddhist nuns. And I haven't even talked about the early wholesale murders, banishment of the local people. The Tibetans who are left are discriminated against, can't find good jobs I hear. Just awful stuff.
I am going to try also to start looking at where my products are made and to the extent I can NOT buy products made in China. If we all did this it would send an even stronger message to Beijing!
I think the protesters are disgraceful. They would never dare go to China and protest so why abuse their (and our) freedoms to do so peacefully in London, Paris, etc. by being violent. I see most public protest as rather arrogant. They are always a minority. Far more people don't protest than do...But the protesters get all the attention. Why didn't the people protesting the China games do more to promote another city at the time of selection?
I realize you aren't going to do it, and that's fine. I was half joking in a way, but just for argument's sake (because I am feeling frisky today), think of the impact the following might have on China rather than the sort of nameless (anonymous crowds more or less) protests going on lately. Not that the protests haven't been moving. BTW, Hope is studying the Tiananmen Square massacre in history this week...
"China! We respectfully ask you to return to the noble ideals of Confucious. We ask that you stop terrorizing your people when they challenge or even mildly question state policy. We ask that you be a fair market trader rather than the industrial-secrets thief, shoddy-dangerous-products producer you now are.
Most importantly we would really like to know WHY you - who are so powerful, whose people are so numerous, armed with nuclear weapons yet, etc. - are so frightened by one man (the most holy Dalai Lama), one culture, the Tibetans?????
Because we know a bully when we see one (long experience), we at AFF add our name to the long list of people currently sick to death of your savage, often inhuman ways. In speaking to our citizens we have garnered the following support as well:
Aspies for Freedom
CAPA- Abused Children
the Kiwanis Clubs, Lion's Clubs, of America
Mothers of Murdered Children of Drunk Drivers
the Girls Scouts of America
NASCAR
the American Cancer Society
See? BTW, IF those organizations decided to add their names to this list I am at a loss what connection they would have to repression in China either. But in the end it would add that much needed human face to this crisis. Now all we have are nameless protestors along the torch's route- hardly overwhelming the way a truly unified protest would be such as the above.
So how is it ludicrous again? How is it really a stretch? Here's the connection again: Aspies are bullied and Tibetans are being bullied, too band the stakes are as high as ours for lives are being lost, a gentle culture is being destroyed.
I realize you aren't going to do it, and that's fine. I was half joking in a way, but just for argument's sake (because I am feeling frisky today), think of the impact the following might have on China rather than the sort of nameless (anonymous crowds more or less) protests going on lately. Not that the protests haven't been moving. BTW, Hope is studying the Tiananmen Square massacre in history this week...
"China! We respectfully ask you to return to the noble ideals of Confucious. We ask that you stop terrorizing your people when they challenge or even mildly question state policy. We ask that you be a fair market trader rather than the industrial-secrets thief, shoddy-dangerous-products producer you now are.
Most importantly we would really like to know WHY you - who are so powerful, whose people are so numerous, armed with nuclear weapons yet, etc. - are so frightened by one man (the most holy Dalai Lama), one culture, the Tibetans?????
Because we know a bully when we see one (long experience), we at AFF add our name to the long list of people currently sick to death of your savage, often inhuman ways. In speaking to our citizens we have garnered the following support as well:
Aspies for Freedom
CAPA- Abused Children
the Kiwanis Clubs, Lion's Clubs, of America
Mothers of Murdered Children of Drunk Drivers
the Girls Scouts of America
NASCAR
the American Cancer Society
add as many organizations, clubs as you'd like, get the idea???
See? BTW, IF those organizations decided to add their names to this list I am at a loss what connection they would have to repression in China either. But in the end it would add that much needed human face to this crisis. Now all we have are nameless protestors along the torch's route- hardly overwhelming the way a truly unified protest would be such as the above.
So how is it ludicrous again? How is it really a stretch? Here's the connection again: Aspies are bullied and Tibetans are being bullied, too but the stakes are as high as ours for lives are being lost, a gentle culture is being destroyed.
Ellen - The message in your post is very well expressed. I can see the value in your idea. Adding other groups in to support the message, this gives the message more strength in it's ability to impact and make a difference.
To me it sounds abit hard on the chinese population, but I dunno.
I agree with you - it does seem hard on the chinese population - when for so long they have been ruled by an autocracy.
I mean why are they not HERE protesting. Maybe they cannot protest there, but they can here. And they can protest there, but they may die for it, right? Well if you are not willing to die for a cause, is it worth protesting?
Maybe they want the olympics to go ahead.
My daughter was Bejing a few months ago - she saw all the preparation and effort being put in by the people of Bejing. She has a reasonably politically astute mind. She feels sad for the people of Bejing - she states Bejing is a long way from China.
I don't think she knows much about Tibet however.
I believe people learn best from example - barriers can be broken down through peaceful communication. I see the Olympics as a way to breakdown barriers peacefully and open up communication and dialogue between China and the rest of the world.
Englishlulu - I am sorry about your friend, awful situation, very sad.
I think the protesters are disgraceful. They would never dare go to China and protest so why abuse their (and our) freedoms to do so peacefully in London, Paris, etc. by being violent. I see most public protest as rather arrogant. They are always a minority. Far more people don't protest than do...But the protesters get all the attention. Why didn't the people protesting the China games do more to promote another city at the time of selection?
Has it occurred to you that the majority of people (working especially) cannot afford the luxury of protest? Many businesses actively discourage it. The assertion that it is "arrogant" is completely erroneous. Yes. Tell that to the people who fought at The Battle of Cable Street. Tell that to the Austrian Social Democrats that actively fought and protested against genocidal fascists. What a ridiculous thing to say. How is it disgraceful? Sometimes violence is a necessity. In this case it most certainly is. You cannot sit there and expect to negotiate, and reasonably, with a fascist dictatorship that is systematically destroying an ethnic group. I'm sorry, but Ghandi and MLK would not have succeeded without the more violent factions.
Have you been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome?
The Lama is hardly perfect...but still...the implicit remarks.
Well, the current Dalai Lama can hardly be blamed for any feudal terror regime, even if it existed in Tibet prior to the Chinese invasion. he was only fifteen when he became Dalai Lama, in November 1950 -- and by then, the Chinese were already on his borders demanding negotations or else. From then on, China had control over Tibet. He chose to stay for nine years, trying to negotiate, and then ran away only at the suspection of plans for his assasination. Therefore, passages such as this are laughably wrong:
In the build-up to this take over, His Holiness The Dalai Lama instead of staying in Tibet to defend his Tibetan people opted to leave through the back doors of His temple equipped and laden with carriage loads of gold and riches which belonged to the Tibetan people and which had been collected within the Temple of The Dalai Lama as “offerings” given by the ignorant and poor but extremely pious Tibetan people who consider The Dalai Lama more as a God than a Buddhist leader. Together with His Holiness left hundreds of rich and loyal Tibetans who were close associates when they crossed over to India.
That said, I can see why normal Chinese reacted the way they did against the recent uprising in Tibet. I mean, Tibetans were targeting ethnic han Chinese in Tibet. Innocent people. The reason was rumors of Chinese officials beating and unfairly arresting monks. Nothing to do with the innocent Chinese shop owners targeted. Regardless of wrongdoings past and present, that's hardly the fault of the Chinese non-officials who live in Tibet. It's not difficult to see why from the average Chinese's perspective, this all looks like an unfair uprising, and a fair response. Especially when you factor in the propaganda infused in their minds.
But of course, desperate people use desperate measures. The Tibetans' actions are understandable, too.
In general, protests surrounding the Olympic Torch Relay are awesome. I mean, China hasn't only treated Tibet less than nice, it also treats its own citizens badly, and it supports the Burmese military junta, etc.
The Torch Relay is pure propaganda anyway. The tradition was revived for the 1936 Nazi Olympics. To show off the Third Reich. Now it's being hindered from showing off the Chinese Reich. Which is good.
I don't know enough about the situation in Tibet/China to comment, but I kind of take some issue with the comments about the "destruction of ...the British people." Britishness is an increasingly abstract and out-dated concept, and one the UK government is keen to define and maintain in defiance of increasing confidence in Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish identities. I'm 40 and I have never described myself as British, despite having a British passport. My identity is Scottish.
And here I was hoping you'd say you didn't base your identity on an accident of birth.
Indeed. Thinking about how many self-described individualists are avowed nationalists and patriots makes me cringe.
Free our souls of mold!!!
