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I started learning about it after an episode of THe Simpsons when Lisa said Free Tibet and I did research.

Korrigan Wrote:

As someone who lives in the only city in the US where the torch visited, I am horrified at the mess.  

The streets all over downtown were a complete disaster, with people being bussed in from both sides.  They were screaming at each other, one side "Free Tibet" and the other side "Lies".  The protests were anything but silent.

The torch was accompanied by both Chinese Police and San Francisco Police in FULL RIOT GEAR.  At one point, the Free Tibet people accosted a tour bus full of people.  They laid down in front of the bus and when that was not enough, began to shake it from side to side.  The police intervened.


to me - this is (for some people) an excuse to express violence and hate.
In my mind violence begets violence and hate begets hate.
No two ways about it.
Love begets love. I like Martin Luther Kings attitude to "love our enemies". This is what made him a great man.

A fashionable cause, but I am more concerned about the destruction of my own people, the British people, as a result of mass immigration.

The Tibetans have my sympathy, but they would have less sympathy from the trendy protesters if, in general, they were a people more economically 'advanced' then the Han Chinese.

If the Han Chinese were a much poorer people moving into Tibet for a better life then Tibet would not be such a cause celebre for the trendies.

Economic Marxist ideas are what 'legitimize' these protests, and delegitimize, in the eyes of the liberal media, protests against mass third world immigration into Britain, America and other 'advanced' nations.

The double standards are appalling.

Quote:
You cannot sit there and expect to negotiate, and reasonably, with a fascist dictatorship that is systematically destroying an ethnic group. I'm sorry, but Ghandi and MLK would not have succeeded without the more violent factions.


This makes me laugh, because you could say the same about Sir Oswald Mosley, who tried to liberate Britain from international finance and the war s-for-profit which have really come to hurt us in recent years. One could certainly compare him to Gandhi, had Mosley won the political battle, but who would?

It is a rather an establishment line to tow to support freedom for Tibet.

I think that behind these protests is the motive to destabilise China's economy which already eclipsing those of the West. This is why these protests will have implicit establishment support.

So, Tibetans can wickedly re-enact Kristalnacht on the businesses of Han Chinese immigrants in Tibet, yet Oswald Mosley is remembered as pariah by people who do not even know what fascism is.

In fact, the precarious position of Han Chinese in Tibet must be similar in some ways to the wealthier Jews of pre-Nazi Germany. They will be perceived as profiteers and traders and a danger to the 'Blut und Boden' ethos of traditional Tibetan culture.

Marcia Wrote:
I don't know enough about the situation in Tibet/China to comment, but I kind of take some issue with the comments about the "destruction of ...the British people."  Britishness is an increasingly abstract and out-dated concept, and one the UK government is keen to define and maintain in defiance of increasing confidence in Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish identities.  I'm 40 and I have never described myself as British, despite having a British passport.  My identity is Scottish.


You forgot the English identity, poppet.

Marcia Wrote:

Sat_Chit_Anand Wrote:

Marcia Wrote:
I don't know enough about the situation in Tibet/China to comment, but I kind of take some issue with the comments about the "destruction of ...the British people."  Britishness is an increasingly abstract and out-dated concept, and one the UK government is keen to define and maintain in defiance of increasing confidence in Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish identities.  I'm 40 and I have never described myself as British, despite having a British passport.  My identity is Scottish.


You forgot the English identity, poppet.


Sorry, poppet.  It's been interchangable with the "British" one for so long that I tend to forget! Smile


If you look at racial groupings, the British Isles are remarkably homogeneous in nature.

There are pockets of racial difference in the native population mostly on the West coast of Scotland, the North-East of Scotland and South Wales,  visible to those who care to take notice of them.

In Ireland, County Cork and County Kerry are, racially, particularly different from the rest of Ireland and from Britain as they are home to the remains of a much older population.

The British identity is mainly political, but one finds the Establishment and their many whores today choosing to forget about England so as to intensify the national identification of Welsh and Scottish people. This is because the current agenda is to split up the nations which are Britain and further integrate them into the EU.

For this to be achieved England must be split up into EU Regions with undemocratic governmental structures, which are already operating.

The SNP was infiltrated by MI5 to prevent it from being the radical nationalist movement that it once was and to make it an Establishment tool.

In view of this you might understand that there might be more to your apparent amnesia that you imagine.

You may also wish to read about SNP's Arthur Donaldson who was detained under the same law as fascist leader Sir Oswald Mosley.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Donaldson
http://independentbaillieston.blogspot.c...n-snp.html

Nationalism in Britain has been undermined and subverted to fit with the Establishment's agenda.

More:

http://news.scotsman.com/scottishnationa...2791306.jp

Murdered to make way for MI5 deep cover agents?

Identitarian movements will only permitted by the Establishment if they subscribe to economic liberalism. Radicals will be dispensed with and the masses will be given their bread and circuses...

Marcia Wrote:
I thought there was something a bit sus about our British friend, and having looked back I see he's BNP so I'm not engaging, with him, that is! Wink

Scotland tends to be a bit more welcoming of immigrants than England is.  Unfortunately, asylum and immigration is still dealt with by the UK govt. so we've been unable to make our own, more welcoming, policies.


Oh, but I want to engage with you dear, because I used to think just like you and I was very very proud of myself.

Immigrants may be attracted to Britain's hyper-capitalist economy, but the cracks are already showing and we are heading towards an appalling capitalist recession of the type which Sir Oswald Mosley often warned us of.

Whilst I neither like nor dislike immigrants, no-one will be able convince me that immigration is good for Britain.

Immigration has only really benefited the top players in the economy, to whom most of us are mere chattel.

Immigration is a symptom of immoral economics and the desire to redress this iniquitous situation is central to nationalist thought. This ideological movement goes back to the Quaker socialists, William Morris, the Bloomsbury group and beyond, before immigration was even an issue for Britons.

It was tragic that when Britain's empire was it its peak, ordinary Britons were at their poorest. Despite some beneficial socialist reforms (all of which would have been better and more efficiently implemented by Mosley) Britain's enormous financial empire, is still extant and yet, we have one of the worst child poverty levels in Europe, and our men and women fight in wars which their children do not benefit from.

Re: The British National Party

I have looked around at lot at different political ideas. When I was 11 years old I was a socialist, at a time when most of my contemporaries were raving about Thatcherism.

I was born in Camden, London. My father was and still is an anarchist who works for the Animal Liberation Front. My mother's family were immigrants of Austrian and Romany extraction. I am not a racist person. My girlfriend is Jewish. My best friends in my town (Aberdeen) belong to the traveling community. So how did I end up being an 'Uncle Tom' supporter of the 'fascist' BNP?

I feel that I am persecuted because I am white and male with a Christian background. I never felt this at the Jewish school I attended. This racism and denigration of my culture came from white leftists much later on in life. I live in a prosperous town where many of my friends have been unable to access social housing because their parents live in Aberdeen, whereas I, and any immigrant coming into this town will find it much easier.

How is this right?

We are all judged by the same rules for social housing, but there appears to be favouring of immigrants over settled communities. Poor white indigenous people who are "lazy" and "don't want to work" have become the object of ridicule for the capitalist class who are their very kith and kin. How can a nation be divided on a class-basis like this and expect to survive? It will not, and it will explode.

Find me a political party whose policies are better than the BNP, who would give me and my family a better life and I will give them my consideration.

As a national-anarchist, I have not seen anything better.

From their policies to encourage local referendum democracy and co-operative economics to restoring freedom of assembly and free speech and everything in between, I feel that I have hope for the next generation.

This is important to me because I have had to endure years of oblique and overt class discrimination, racial hatred and leftist indoctrination, and do not see why my children should become part of an experiment designed by social Marxists and implemented through bodies such as the National Union of Journalists and the National Union of Teachers, or be persecuted for being white and non-Muslim by an increasingly hostile immigrant Muslim community.

The immigrant population is just being used for capitalist economic ends and to try and force social Marxism on a largely unwilling native population, and I think that this is extremely wicked, cruel and exploitative, and as someone from an immigrant background myself I am instinctively distrustful of this racist agenda.

Immigration and social Marxism also look rather 'sus' as they seem to be a cover up for Britain's continuing economic exploitation of poorer countries.

Creasy redux, I disagree with you because there is something to draw a comparison from; both China-in-Tibet and the British government have clearly denied the people the opportunity to vote on whether or not they want mass immigration.

There has never been a democratic mandate, but yet again, the moneyed interest dictates to us whether or not we will go to war, take in thousands of immigrants or whatever their latest liberal free trade project is.

All of this is for an economic system which working and middle class people never even get a fair deal from.

Ian Wrote:
And just you TRY fighting it ;]

Because you know, nobody can.


These people are: http://www.radicalroutes.org.uk

Anarchists today have become very adept at fighting capitalism and socialism.

One of the workers' co-operatives listed in the above directory is running the largest organic box scheme in Wales.

This village has taken to growing their own and selling it, cheaper than the supermarket, but still at a good profit for themselves:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/ar...ge_id=1770

There are many methods of introducing localism, both in production, distribution and in the third sector and to suggest otherwise is simply not true.

Localized economic and democratic structures are the basis of modern 'nationalism' and these ideas will become popular, and I am looking forward to the impaction of the credit crunch.

Free the parents!
Do you like being trash? Smile
Yup.

And fyi I'll ALWAYS be more totalitarian than you, it's in my blood. Tongue

Aeolienne Wrote:
Here's another Olympics-related campaign...

Catch the Flame is an initiative of Play Fair 2008 and is supported by a
global alliance of trade unions, non-governmental organisations (NGOs),
labour groups and concerned individuals, working together to draw
attention to the maltreatment and exploitation of workers in the
merchandise industry of the Olympic Games in Beijing (2008), Vancouver
(Winter 2010) and London (2012).

The aim is to pressure sportswear and athletic footwear companies, the
International Olympics Committee (IOC), its organising committees
(OCOGs), the National Olympic Committees (NOCs), and national
governments, into taking identifiable and concrete measures to eliminate
the exploitation and abuse of workers in the global sporting goods
industry.

Play Fair 2008 is organized by the International Trade Union
Confederation (ITUC), the Clean Clothes Campaign (CCC), and the
International Textile Garment and Leather Workers Federation (ITGLWF).
Play Fair 2008 is also supported by a range of trade unions and NGOs.

It is envisaged that this campaign will continue through to the London
2012 Olympics and that decent work and labour standards are written into
all global sporting contracts.

To show solidarity with all workers in the supply chain that feeds the
Olympics, please follow the link http://www.catchtheflame.org to a
virtual Olympic torch that can be passed on electronically.


I am a little biased against socialism and this sort of action, but I have doubts over whether or not such action can make an immediate difference anyway.

Far better would be for our nations to adopt policies such as those of the 'far-right' Austrian Freedom Party (FPOe), in an outright ban on imports from countries which employ prison, slave and child labour.

This would have the knock-on effect of protecting our own manufacturing industries and our workers should certainly not have to compete with prison, child and slave labour anyway.

Aeolienne Wrote:

I received an email from the same source informing me of a trade-union-led relief effort for the victims of Cyclone Nargis. I didn't know there were any trade unions in Burma.


Burma is one great big trade union.

Aeolienne Wrote:
Really? I thought trade unions tended to be pro all that human rights and democracy stuff.


You are cuter than I thought.

In this big bad world, any progressive political ideology can turn sour.

In the case of socialist trade unions, once they become too powerful, they can turn whole countries into public limited companies which nobody actually owns, but which mostly serve the administration running them.

This is 'equality' at its worst, I am afraid.

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