Aspies For Freedom

Has anyone read B.F. SKinner, Walden II ?

I agree, a saving grace for society, with its' ills etc., is that at least (here in the US) there is still, where there is a will there is a way and As Gareth says, meritocracy in capitalism.

I don't say that capitalism equals meritocracy - though I just knew you might split hairs on the way I wrote it.  What I said was, there is still (some)meritocracy in capitalism.  There are still plenty of people, who started out penniless, but who worked relly hard at their education and the eduation was the key.  I said where there is a will,. there is a way (well there is the possibility anyway).  My father and his parents came to the US (I am 1st generation) and off the boat - penniless- were given one donut and a dollar by the salvation army.. after WWII (from a work camp in Germany). No english, 3rd grade education... my dad and his siblings, were educated BIG TIME, PHD,'s etc., etc., MERIT!

Wondering1 Wrote:
"zero tolerance for unkind words or actions."
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Agreed. Don't they have that in the US?
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In theory.  In practice, no teacher can keep up with 25 or more students.

And so.  It seems that our ideas about what a 'good' public school would look like are fairly similar.
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Had to point out "no teacher can" is just not true.  While in one school my son had 10 kids in his class, another (catholic) school has 34.  A properly trained/managed teacher i n a properly managed school is all it takes. It is just an excuse the teachers are falling back on, that parents just give in to, the "Oh, 25 kids, who could supervise them all?" Bogus, in my opinion, and in my reality... :O)

An Indirect democracy is what (we) the US are supposed to be.  Unfortunately, in my opinion, we are corporate owned, lock, stock and barrell (as a country).  Which is not to say that our citizenry have given up yet.  I think if we are not careful, our genetic make-up as revolters/revolutionaries will get washed away in the next couple of generations.

In addition, let me say, one of the strong reasons I have for advocating so vehemently for how/where my children are educated - is to make sure they do not get brain-washed into group think.  Just because alot of others act/think one way, does not make it right.  Individual conscience, it's a good thing.  Sometimes, anarchy is not a bad word.

It is the structure of a school that is so important.  Aslo, I have 3 kids also, It is equally as easy for me to supervise 10 kids the same age, then 3 of my own of different ages (at times).  If the focus of the school is civilized behavior, then that is what you have.  Of course, private, catholic or parochial schools (admittedly) have it easier, because like-minded parents tend to send their kids to the same places - also, the school doesn't have to take every kid that applies.  So admittedly, in public school,  even the best trained teacher would have problems with 25 kids if more than one was particularly difficult, with no support from the parent at home or was a different learner (like my John) it would not be ideal. Though, if the school was properly managed and structured, there would be proper placements available for all. Dream world...

anomie is not in my (dumb american) dictionary.  I looked it up... LOL I'll look at the chavs thread -not here (if that subject needs to be) also don't know what a chav is. (signed, dumb american)

Grizeldatee... You are the sizzle and the steak.  WHere's the beef, you got it.  In other words I am enjoying your insights and evidence.  (especially since I agree with you wholeheartedly) Though, unfortunately the subject is sad.

You don't have to be born rich to be elite, you don't have to be born with money to end up very very powerful, you don't have to be a nice person to work hard and end up a wealthy business owner.  You can get to the top of the ladder - through meritocracy- but that doesn't make you a nice person who is looking out for others.  All your education can be used for selfish purposes... greed in capitalism is bad.   (Just saying)

Has anyone here ever read B.F. Skinner, Walden II?  It occures to me that I am not only on here for a better understanding of my son John -but I am so enjoying the discourse here remind of of the way the book is written (favorite book, since I was 13).

Earthmonkey, I can relate to your experiences so well, you are really great at communicating.  You remind me of my son John with reading -phonics didn't click for sure.  He didn't seem to like the baby steps - like learning letters one by one - he was not interested or they didn't make sense to him.  I think that he probably just learned things in clumps, in large leaps and then went from not being able to read (well)in september of 2nd grade, to being able to read anything by the middle!  When it clicked, it clicked.