Aspies For Freedom

That is quite alright. I did not think that your posts were particularly offensive.

Wondering1 Wrote:

Thank you. Not all of them are particularly original ideas though.

I would like elucidation on point 8.

Do you think that state (public) schools should be secular? If not, why?

State schools should be secular, oops.  I should have been more specific.  

But I believe that people should also have the option of sending their child to a private religous school, or as we all know my opinions on this, homeschool them and include religion in their schooling if they want.

The problem with private education is that it creates entrenched wealth in the long run. Consider Eton in the UK. It is enormously expensive. It performs relatively poorly, especially in comparison to the better state and grammar schools. Yet the connections that are established there ensure that a fairly mediocre student may end up at Oxford or Cambridge. Of all the students that I studied with the publicly (in the UK the term means something completely different, it identifies a non-selective private school) educated ones were by far the weakest. How is that meritocratic?

Hmmm...depends. It could be communism. Could be something else. Depends on the way its done, the structural implications etc. etc.

I am not suggesting that all be made equal. Simply advising that there be equality of opportunity. If my father, from an extremely poor family, had not been able to be educated well and for free then he would not have been able to succeed. In spite of his intellect. The system can only be meritocratic if there is equality of opportunity. Private education undermines that.

No. I think honestjohn may have misread my original post. I am aware.

My opinion?

I think that it is fairly natural. State schools are today the closest approximation to the tribal group. The problem arises where most anthropologists say “Well, that tribe would have been inclusive. People would not have divided themselves into families. Just look at the palaeontology/archaeology.” etc. People just don't seem to be able to accept that, for whatever reason, because monogamy and the nuclear family are so entrenched in the occident. In that sense, then, the state school comprises a community of teachers and learners. The great difference is that you have one tutor teaching say, 10 or 15 pupils. It's scale. In an evolutionary sense? It's logical and relatively natural. Admittedly the institutions themselves are man-made...but if you consider the community as being macrocosmic of the tribe, and that knowledge is being diffused...I don't see as to why it's so unnatural.

I think it's far more natural than, say, consumerism or capitalism.

The games are to be held in a fascist country. The government is autocratic. The people are oppressed. The country is planning to engage in genocide.

Sound familiar? No. This isn't 1936. It's 2008.

I think it's absolutely abominable that heads of state would even consider attending the ceremonies. Think how shameful 1936 was.

I think that the protests are entirely justified.

I like that. Politics is -in- me as well. It constitutes most of my personality. Heh

Individualism:

"Belief in the primary importance of the individual and in the virtues of self-reliance and personal independence."

"A doctrine advocating freedom from government regulation in the pursuit of a person's economic goals."

"A doctrine holding that the interests of the individual should take precedence over the interests of the state or social group."


I do not see how that conflicts with my statement...I'd say that it is entirely accurate to call it individualism. Everything is a competition. Everyone behaves selfishly. Social Darwinism? I'd argue that it ties into individualism.

You do not think that this is bad for all minority groups? I do.

There is a lot of thread to read and it is late. My apologies to all who have posted here who I won't be reading until tomorrow or later. Here are my preliminary thoughts:

"1. It can be.
2. It would depend on the way the school is set up. Not everyone learns the same way.
3. Gotta think about that one.
4. Depends on what is meant by "assessment."
5. Not sure the distinction being drawn here.  It is difficult to get educators to agree on what, exactly, "educated" means .... so ????
6. Why would any ideologies be excluded? That sounds like "abstinance only" sex education here in the US.
7. Of course.
8. Of course.
9. Of course.
10. This sounds like what is called "tracking" here in the US, and comparative studies between tracked and untracked schools have been inconclusive. I would be particularly concerned about it at lower grade levels because a consistent finding was that small skill level differences at lower grades translated into pronounced differences years later."

Well, I agree...your statement regarding number 2 is pretty much implicit in my original post.
As for number 10? I think it has to be fluid. It has to start relatively late as well. In the UK, for example, streaming has been shown to be enormously beneficial. It works well in many countries.
Number 6? Hmmm...I'm not sure. 'Abstinence only' sex education is harmful. Excluding Nazism from a curriculum? Hmmm...we're talking about young children. I think it belongs in the history class room.
5? Educated. Not trained to take and pass tests.
4? Academic etc. and personality profiling. Hardly an Orwellian idea, simply there to assist the tutor.

"1. smaller schools. Anthropology tells us that the natural tribe is about 150 people. That should be the biggest school."

That's not a bad idea. Is it practicable though?

"smaller classes.  No more than 10 to 1 ratio."

My classes were that small. Class sizes are not such a big problem in Europe. Of course it's a good thing.

"more hands-on, engaging activities."

Yep. Suits certain learning styles.

"fewer worksheets"

Educated rather than trained.

"zero tolerance for unkind words or actions."

Agreed. Don't they have that in the US?

"greater focus on the long-term goal of raising confident, competent adults."

Hmmm....I think that may be entwined with my tripartite vision. Ruthless academic assessment can destabilise some people. Show them that they can do something well.

"more opportunities for children to pursue learning through their own interests"

Definitely.

"less focus on testing and scores. It's like trying to bake a cake when somebody keeps opening the oven door and jabbing a knife in to see if it's done."

Exactly.

"less infatuation with electronic gadgetry. A superior education is possible with almost no access to electrical devices. Hire more teachers rather than buy more gadgets."

Very true. Oftentimes we are told that our system is 'backward' because we don't have electronic blackboards etc.

However theft does matter

Theft is the illegimate taking of another's resources. Theft matters because it is illegitimate. If someone damages my property and the judicial system rewards me compensation then it is not theft when agents of the law garnish his wages to pay me what he owes me.

GuessWho, I have to say I am very impressed with you.  When you started out on the two threads regarding schooling, your views were limited and you did not have enough information to really understand what people were saying.  You listened, bought a book, and have really turned full circle.  

It is hard to work with your children who have learning disabilities, because you just cannot see it through their eyes.  I have learned a lot from my daughter.