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Wondering1 Wrote:
I think that it is fairly natural. State schools are today the closest approximation to the tribal group. talism.


I agree - people live together in groups i.e. societies -- so why not come together as a group to take advantage of supposedly good resources i.e trained teachers.
The problem lies with how groups operate - whether they are healthy or not. A sickness / weakness in  society will be reflected in the systems of that society.

dalai lama - (I think that's right honestjohn) not sure though.

honestjohn Wrote:
Tangent- Well, 50th anniversary and no free press over there usually, so spot light, if not now, then it never will be seenn in ht elight of day and possibly changed. (rather ignorant about the whole dalai lama thing - see, I don't even have a clue how to spell his name)


Yeah - but attacking good - wont help to make a wrong right.
Maybe we need a new thread.

Wondering1 Wrote:

8.All education must be secular.


I think I could go with this if your other requirements were met.
I sent my childrent to Catholic schools - I don't think I believe in God. I feel like a sinner saying this (brought up a catholic).
At my son's secondary school - the religious instructor (a holy brother) made it clear that they taught religion more as theology - rather than Catholism. I was taught Chrisitian living at school (not Catholicism so much). Also I as taught about evolution and the big bang theory.

Wondering1 Wrote:

The games are to be held in a fascist country. The government is autocratic. The people are oppressed. The country is planning to engage in genocide.

Sound familiar? No. This isn't 1936. It's 2008.

I think that the protests are entirely justified.


hmmmmmmmm - yes.
I know the feeling disgust I felt at seeing the photos I saw of Hitler and his facist salute at the 1936.
However there is that other photo of Hitler when Jessie Owens won his race.

Catholism --- should be Catholicism

Wondering1 Wrote:
10.Children should be streamed according to ability. This need only apply to academics. Children are free to move up or down a set, depending on how they are performing. This would mean that the subject matter and teaching would both be consonant with the child's ability.
Thoughts?


I worry about this one. Separatism based on ability - also feeds into heirachachial thinking - classrooms should express diversity in a way reflects and promotes the acceptance of diversity of societal groups.

should have said - the acceptance of diversity within societal groups.

Korrigan Wrote:

I wonder, though, if that is not a "necessary evil" in order to keep the kids thriving and learning at their own levels.  
Just a thought...


It's an evil that may not be worth the risk of the repucussions it could create. The ultimate ideal to aim for is learning how to live -  to achieve academically should come second.

Got to go!

honestjohn Wrote:
  Notice ai am making sure to not be misunderstood whil trying to use humor..  


This bit was funny Smile

grizeldatee Wrote:
I went to a public school with tracking in Alabama.  You guessed it, all the dark-skinned kids were in the 'basic' classes and all the blue-eyed kids were in the 'advanced' classes.  <*sarcasm* Funny coincidence. > Here's the worst of it, though, the advanced and basic classes ate lunch at different times, had breaks at different times, etc.  I went to a school where at least half of the students were black and I would not see a single black kid all day long.



Awful - not shocking really -- more like a sad reflection of the way things are in society. An example of the structures that are firmly entrenched to keep people in their places.

Wondering1 Wrote:

Korrigan Wrote:

GuessWho Wrote:
How important is

a. the quality of the school in learning versus
b. how hard the student works and
c. the student's non-school environment

in what the student actually achieves?


I suspect if students don't achieve, part of the problem is that they are not working hard enough.  No pain no gain.


If I could kick you square in the bottom for this statement I would.

My daughter works so hard she cries when she tries to read.  She has been hearing how stupid she is and has been fully aware of how behind the other kids she is since mid-kindergarten.  

She has an awful lot of pain, but I am not seeing the gain.  


This signifies difference. I should imagine that your daughter is intelligent. I should imagine that she is not receiving the help that she needs. I have wondered as to whether there should be different classes for different children, and that these classes should correspond to their 'learning styles'. Thoughts?


I agree - groups arranged to accommodate different learning styles.

GuessWho Wrote:

but the school can't do it without a willing student, and preferably, a cooperating parent or two.


The school has an obligation to educate the child. They need to structure the environment to help the child to achieve. If a child is experiencing ongoing negative feedback - they will lose their enthusiasm for learning. You have to create the right environment for learning to take place. The child needs nurturance and support to develop an attitude of wanting to learn.

Gareth Wrote:
On point 6:
Criticial thinking first, individual ideologies, philosophies and religions second. It is important though to discuss ideologies such as racism and look at why they are flawed. "it's not nice" doesn't provide a solid reason and lays the foundations for the first racist with a slightly more detailed argument to come along and convince people. Sadly, "list morality" as I call it is taught almost universally rather than actual ethics. Ethics looks at WHY a certain action is good or bad, morality simply condemns certain things as evil while labelling other things as virtues without much backing.


Critical thinking is the crux - ethics is based on critical evaluation of moral beliefs and values.

honestjohn Wrote:
Has anyone here ever read B.F. Skinner, Walden II?  

No - but I will look out for it - I like the way you express your ideas honestjohn. You make strong statements with few words and you seem to be able to use humour and irony well in your writing.

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