04-06-2008, 02:49 AM
04-06-2008, 09:26 PM
I'm very interested in facillitated communication, and what it encompasses. I really don't know much about it, except that it's helped some people and some other people haven't been. Anyone know good resources on find out more about it?
04-07-2008, 03:19 PM
It helps when you have trouble with starting movements, with getting "stuck" doing the same movement over and over, with automatic movements (like typing "the" every time you hit the T key, for example)... FC only helps, though, with people who are already literate--meaning you have to teach them to read, first. That means the visual/auditory skills for reading need to be in place.
If the facilitator ends up contaminating the message, chances are the person doing the FC is actually pretty perceptive... You have to use various methods to make sure the message gets through without input from the facilitator. For example, Have the facilitator sit where they can't see the keyboard; use a different facilitator sometimes; use the least possible touch that still serves the purpose intended... Teach use of independent communication ASAP, because a facilitator may not always be around...
If the facilitator ends up contaminating the message, chances are the person doing the FC is actually pretty perceptive... You have to use various methods to make sure the message gets through without input from the facilitator. For example, Have the facilitator sit where they can't see the keyboard; use a different facilitator sometimes; use the least possible touch that still serves the purpose intended... Teach use of independent communication ASAP, because a facilitator may not always be around...
04-07-2008, 08:03 PM
pezar Wrote:
SheWhoCan'tThinkOfAUsername Wrote:
How do you know if her mother wrote it...?
Ok, YOU decide whether this "amazing achievement" is real or not:
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/PersonOfWeek/st...478&page=1
Video included, as well as samples of her supposed "writing", showing a skill far beyond that of a normal 10 year old, much less one with cerebral palsy. Watch, then you tell me if it's real.
I believe computers can and do faciliate personal communicative interactions - even if there is a need for an aide to assist.
I don't find it surprising that the 10 year old would have developed language skills outside of the norm when compared to her peers. She is locked through her disability - in to being only able to take part in a limited level of activities in her life. It seems very plausible to me that the activities she can take part in could be developed to a higher level. She has a normal cognitive ability in regard to being able to understand the world. The human brain and spirit has amazing abilities to compensate for differences in levels of functioning and make amazing achievements.
The video doesn't show enough to know if the mother is guiding her daughter.
04-07-2008, 10:56 PM
anbuend Wrote:
I just read it, and it doesn't sound too out of line for a 10-year-old to me, especially a 10-year-old who loves reading as much as she does.
I can remember typing out poems when I was 12, that when a friend of mine showed it to an adult she knew, the adult said that a 12-year-old could not write with that level of abstraction. I did not always even consciously understand the meaning of what I wrote, I just put it together without thinking.
That same friend talked of giving assignments to teachers at school, and having them handed back with "In your own words, please" scrawled all over them, even if they were her own words.
My father was once accused of cheating for doing well in a particular class.
I know enough people that things like this have happened to, that I think that children are just flat underestimated, and when children do something beyond what is expected, people just assume the children couldn't "really" do it.
And even if there's some category of "gifted" children in those areas, there's nothing about CP that means a person can't also fall into that category.
I can remember typing out poems when I was 12, that when a friend of mine showed it to an adult she knew, the adult said that a 12-year-old could not write with that level of abstraction. I did not always even consciously understand the meaning of what I wrote, I just put it together without thinking.
That same friend talked of giving assignments to teachers at school, and having them handed back with "In your own words, please" scrawled all over them, even if they were her own words.
My father was once accused of cheating for doing well in a particular class.
I know enough people that things like this have happened to, that I think that children are just flat underestimated, and when children do something beyond what is expected, people just assume the children couldn't "really" do it.
And even if there's some category of "gifted" children in those areas, there's nothing about CP that means a person can't also fall into that category.
Oh, exactly! I have assignment after assignment I was questioned on the authorship, just because I would use big words in it. I didn't always understand the words I spoke or wrote, but they always seemed to make sense to other people in the context of what I wrote, so I guess I was using them correctly. What was worse was when I understood exactly what I wrote, but then the teacher would call me up to explain what they mean to make sure. Which sounds fine at first, except that I have not been able to summarize most of the time, and the gestures I would make in searching for words would be interpreted as me not knowing. And I was one of those people the school identified as gifted according to IQ testing. I can't imagine how skeptical they would've been if (*gasp!*) I had a...dun-dun-dun...lower score! 
My dad in junior high got an F on an assignment because of his drawing looking so realistic that the teacher didn't believe he did it, even when both his parents went to the teacher and verified that he did do it.
04-07-2008, 11:11 PM
I read some of what she wrote, and it reminds me a bit of my writing at that age, as far as the syntax, the organization of paragraphs, sentence variation, imagery, etc.. I rarely spoke at school, so most of my thoughts I would write, and very much to dramatic effect, as most of it was about personal injustice I had encountered with the non-punishment of bullies and the employment of unfair policies against me. I remember at age 10 or 11 or so first getting to use an AlphaSmart to type.
Most of my writing was convoluted ideas about philosophy, space-time, nature-adventure stories, and science fiction, as well as apocalyptic scenarios such as nuclear warfare and asteroid collisions, as well as made-up civilizations torn by war. I remember being particularly made fun of for something I wrote in fourth grade about a "fall in the economy", world war, and "natural disasters sweeping devastation across the land". Apparently my doom and gloom style of fiction and my pessimistic, anti-establishment type nonfiction essays about political corruption somehow struck them as funny, though not nearly as much as my speculation about quantum mechanics.
Most of my writing was convoluted ideas about philosophy, space-time, nature-adventure stories, and science fiction, as well as apocalyptic scenarios such as nuclear warfare and asteroid collisions, as well as made-up civilizations torn by war. I remember being particularly made fun of for something I wrote in fourth grade about a "fall in the economy", world war, and "natural disasters sweeping devastation across the land". Apparently my doom and gloom style of fiction and my pessimistic, anti-establishment type nonfiction essays about political corruption somehow struck them as funny, though not nearly as much as my speculation about quantum mechanics.
04-08-2008, 04:26 AM
Well, I first started typing when I was very young with a Sesame Street computer program that had big letters (which really helped, as that was pre-glasses). I also was pretty slow for awhile. My hands used to hurt after a bit, but not anywhere near as much as it hurts when I write by pen or pencil. My main motivation I guess was that I wanted to be a novelist from when I was little, and my longest story at age 9 got to be about 20 or 30 pages I think (before that my longest was 7 pages handwritten).
I guess I don't have much good advice. I remember what made me not like typing was the typing programs at school. They would make a buzzing sound when you got something wrong, and at that time I made a lot of errors and pressed backspace to get rid of the wrong letter and replace it with the one intended. However, the program wouldn't let me do that, and so I'd get even more buzzes, and it would even stop me from moving my fingers and trying to type altogether. I was getting 30% accuracy on those, and I really was discouraged. My typing ability decreased after using that. Thankfully we just had to use it while at school.
My mom still has to look at the keys to type. But she just does data entry and such in her job. I write a lot, so maybe if he had a motivation to write a lot, whether stories, or science reports, or cars, or any other topic of interest.
I guess I don't have much good advice. I remember what made me not like typing was the typing programs at school. They would make a buzzing sound when you got something wrong, and at that time I made a lot of errors and pressed backspace to get rid of the wrong letter and replace it with the one intended. However, the program wouldn't let me do that, and so I'd get even more buzzes, and it would even stop me from moving my fingers and trying to type altogether. I was getting 30% accuracy on those, and I really was discouraged. My typing ability decreased after using that. Thankfully we just had to use it while at school.
My mom still has to look at the keys to type. But she just does data entry and such in her job. I write a lot, so maybe if he had a motivation to write a lot, whether stories, or science reports, or cars, or any other topic of interest.
04-08-2008, 08:29 AM
Quote:
sometimes, i'll use a word, not entirely sure of what exactly it means, but knowing when and in what context to use it in.
Snap. And occasionally I'll find out years later it didn't mean what I thought it did. Oops.
Amazing what you can bluff your way through if you can use big words - for instance, I sailed through uni purely on the back of the ability to spout crap, but I can't actually structure an essay to save my life.
04-09-2008, 01:19 PM
Some people just have a problem that someone needs an aide. They don't think that a person with an aide should have a job or even a volunteer job because the aide needs to be paid. They think that is totally wrong to have to pay for two people to work when they could just pay for one.
I know someone who was saying that there was this visually impaired lawyer at her work. She said that she always needed someone to read to her and drive her to court etc. The lawyer was very clever, good at her job and she could take her braille notes. But it was just the cost of the aide that bothered the person. They were thinking that they could just hire someone who didn't need an aide.
What do people expect that family members or other people should just volunteer to come and help someone? Not everyone has someone available to do that for free. When an employer sees a job applicate in a wheelchair are they just thinking "Can that person use the washroom by themselves?"
So some people might think that is ok for people to have an aide at home or in an institution to live but not to work. Apparently, people who need an aide are supposed to stay at home. So unfair! and stupid!
Sorry if we were mostly talking about facilitated communication.
If more people would learn sign language or bliss symbols such as studying an language at school (instead of maybe Spanish or German that they might never use), people who use these methods of communication would not be so isolated within their own communities (if they even have access to them).
I do think for important meeting such as court, government issues that official and certified facilitated communicators should be used. There must be some test they could use to make sure they are translating correctly. Getting used to a particular person might take some time so maybe there could be an official translator for a set number of people and all their appointments be scheduled according to that. It could really be a problem if someone needed help right away though.
I know someone who was saying that there was this visually impaired lawyer at her work. She said that she always needed someone to read to her and drive her to court etc. The lawyer was very clever, good at her job and she could take her braille notes. But it was just the cost of the aide that bothered the person. They were thinking that they could just hire someone who didn't need an aide.
What do people expect that family members or other people should just volunteer to come and help someone? Not everyone has someone available to do that for free. When an employer sees a job applicate in a wheelchair are they just thinking "Can that person use the washroom by themselves?"
So some people might think that is ok for people to have an aide at home or in an institution to live but not to work. Apparently, people who need an aide are supposed to stay at home. So unfair! and stupid!
Sorry if we were mostly talking about facilitated communication.
If more people would learn sign language or bliss symbols such as studying an language at school (instead of maybe Spanish or German that they might never use), people who use these methods of communication would not be so isolated within their own communities (if they even have access to them).
I do think for important meeting such as court, government issues that official and certified facilitated communicators should be used. There must be some test they could use to make sure they are translating correctly. Getting used to a particular person might take some time so maybe there could be an official translator for a set number of people and all their appointments be scheduled according to that. It could really be a problem if someone needed help right away though.
04-09-2008, 04:49 PM
anbuend Wrote:
I'll also give an example of one kind of assistance I have gotten that some people would label 'facilitated communication' although the person was not formally trained in it.
I have a movement disorder that causes me to sometimes go rigid and also sometimes have involuntary resistance to movement.
This had happened, combined with a bad migraine and overload, in a weird way at a conference, where half of my body went limp and the other half went rigid.
I was able after a little while to bang on my keyboard to indicate a desire to communicate, but was not able to make all the switches in movement direction and such to do it. I could get up and down but then not side to side at the same time.
A friend spontaneously assessed the situation, and decided to see what would happen if she supported my arm a bit. She grabbed and pulled a little. Then muttered some sort of astonished interjection or another, because of how hard my arm was resisting her. So she pulled up and backwards a lot until my arm was sitting still in the air rather than going downward involuntarily.
At that point, because I did not have to fight my arm's attempt to press down as hard as it could, I could move forward and back, and right and left, quite easily.
Then if I wanted to push down, she could phyiscally feel the change from my involuntary level of resistance, to a voluntary pushing down. And she could let up a bit of her resistance at that point to make it easier for me to press down. Then she could immediately pull back up so I wasn't hitting the same key so many times.
She was shocked and somewhat outraged to see this described later as "facilitation", because she has no training in FC and is not particularly a proponent of FC. She was just a friend vaguely familiar with my movement disorder, doing what it took in the moment to figure out what to do.
She also was unfamiliar with the fact that a lot of what looks like "guiding the hand" in "FC" is actually similar to what she was doing: Pushing backwards against the arm or hand.
So that's just one example of how something that at least looks like FC can work, without being someone guiding the hand.
I have a movement disorder that causes me to sometimes go rigid and also sometimes have involuntary resistance to movement.
This had happened, combined with a bad migraine and overload, in a weird way at a conference, where half of my body went limp and the other half went rigid.
I was able after a little while to bang on my keyboard to indicate a desire to communicate, but was not able to make all the switches in movement direction and such to do it. I could get up and down but then not side to side at the same time.
A friend spontaneously assessed the situation, and decided to see what would happen if she supported my arm a bit. She grabbed and pulled a little. Then muttered some sort of astonished interjection or another, because of how hard my arm was resisting her. So she pulled up and backwards a lot until my arm was sitting still in the air rather than going downward involuntarily.
At that point, because I did not have to fight my arm's attempt to press down as hard as it could, I could move forward and back, and right and left, quite easily.
Then if I wanted to push down, she could phyiscally feel the change from my involuntary level of resistance, to a voluntary pushing down. And she could let up a bit of her resistance at that point to make it easier for me to press down. Then she could immediately pull back up so I wasn't hitting the same key so many times.
She was shocked and somewhat outraged to see this described later as "facilitation", because she has no training in FC and is not particularly a proponent of FC. She was just a friend vaguely familiar with my movement disorder, doing what it took in the moment to figure out what to do.
She also was unfamiliar with the fact that a lot of what looks like "guiding the hand" in "FC" is actually similar to what she was doing: Pushing backwards against the arm or hand.
So that's just one example of how something that at least looks like FC can work, without being someone guiding the hand.
Um, I don't understand why this kind of thing would happen. Is there a physical cause and can something be done about it? It just doesn't make sense (sorry if this seems ignorant, I'm not meaning to insult, just trying to understand why)
04-09-2008, 06:04 PM
anbuend Wrote:
She also was unfamiliar with the fact that a lot of what looks like "guiding the hand" in "FC" is actually similar to what she was doing: Pushing backwards against the arm or hand.
It sounds like a ouija board game.
I can't see why some type of mechanical device could not be built that could assist someone with their keyboard typing. It would have to be adapted with a certain sensitivity for each individual. Like the person had to touch a key and make a vocal gesture for it to choose so just random hand movements would not affect it. Like a double physical confirmation on the typing. The device would help them point to a symbol or keyboard letter and the vocal gesture would confirm it. Would that work for some people?
Are people even trying to develop this type of technology?
I guess it wouldn't be considered for someone who only needed it occasionally though. It would take some time to learn to use it and to get it fine tuned. It might not totally eliminate the need for an aide depending on a person's needs. It would just help them more to communicate.
04-09-2008, 10:47 PM
M Wrote:
I can't see why some type of mechanical device could not be built that could assist someone with their keyboard typing. It would have to be adapted with a certain sensitivity for each individual. Like the person had to touch a key and make a vocal gesture for it to choose so just random hand movements would not affect it. Like a double physical confirmation on the typing. The device would help them point to a symbol or keyboard letter and the vocal gesture would confirm it. Would that work for some people?
Are people even trying to develop this type of technology?
I guess it wouldn't be considered for someone who only needed it occasionally though. It would take some time to learn to use it and to get it fine tuned. It might not totally eliminate the need for an aide depending on a person's needs. It would just help them more to communicate.
Are people even trying to develop this type of technology?
I guess it wouldn't be considered for someone who only needed it occasionally though. It would take some time to learn to use it and to get it fine tuned. It might not totally eliminate the need for an aide depending on a person's needs. It would just help them more to communicate.
Possum machines have been in use for many years.
I nursed a man with MS who was almost completely paralysed from the neck down he had one in his room. His worked on a ' suck & blow system ' it was very effective, he was able to type unaided, change TV channels, close the curtains etc.
Possum
Augmentative & Alternative Communication refers to any means by which an individual can supplement or replace spoken communication.
Unaided Communication can comprise of body language, sign language, verbal and gestural strategies.
Aided Communication can require equipment including: objects, photos or symbols (PCS) organised in charts or books and Communication Aids.
These Communication Aids are more commonly called VOCA’s (Voice Output Communication Aids) and are hardware units or laptops installed with communication software, using symbols and/or text, that produce speech with either digitised voice recordings or a synthesised voice.
What is a Communication Aid?
What can a Communication Aid be used for?
Why use a Communication Aid?
Voice for the voiceless
Empowerment tool
Core utility for integration
A Tool for Life
Communication
Literacy
Environmental Control
Education
Life Skills
Entertainment
To respond to others
To encourage independence
To state needs, wants, feelings, opinions & ideas
To communicate spontaneously
To interact and socialise
To offer, ask for and receive information
To hold conversations
Some Useful Terms
Dedicated Aid
A communication aid that has speech as its only or prime function. For example:MessageMates & the Proteor DialO.
Non-Dedicated Aid
A communication aid that can performs tasks other than speech. For example: The Cameleon & CamPac family of communicators.
Static Aid
A communication aid where the communication overlay or screen never changes when selections are made (similar to a communication chart). For example: MessageMates.
Dynamic Aid
A communication aid where the communication screen changes when selections are made (similar to a communication book). For example: Say-it! Sam or a Cameleon with Personal Communicator, Talking Screen or Speaking Dynamically Pro.
Symbolic Aid
A communication aid where the communication method is via symbols such as, PCS, Rebus or Bliss For example: MessageMates, Say-it! Sam or a Cameleon with Personal Communicator, Talking Screen or Boardmaker with Speaking Dynamically Pro.
Text-based Aid
A communication aid where the communication method is via Text (usually involving: word prediction, word learning, document reading and abbreviation expansion) For example: Proteor DialO, Say-it! Sam or a Cameleon with EZ Keys or Speaking Dynamically Pro.
Vocabulary
A coherently organised set of symbols or text that allows a communication aid user to quickly generate speech. For example our symbol vocabularies include: IDV, CCS, CALLtalk & Sensory Adult Vocabulary. Our Text vocabularies include: WordPower and MessageMaker.
04-09-2008, 11:41 PM
anbuend Wrote:
FC doesn't have to require literacy by the way. People can use it to point to things other than letters. And some people learn to write before they learn to read, weird as that may sound (similarly to how some people, like me, learn to speak before learning to understand language).
Also I think Soma Mukhopadhyay has done something where she's had people who normally would use FC, instead point at extremely large letters that are easy for them to point at because of the size, but that are so large that they'd be impractical on a keyboard.
Also I think Soma Mukhopadhyay has done something where she's had people who normally would use FC, instead point at extremely large letters that are easy for them to point at because of the size, but that are so large that they'd be impractical on a keyboard.
I learned to read before I learned to talk. I was able to read all road signs and simple instructions when I was about 2-3, but I couldn't speak until I was 4.
04-10-2008, 05:29 PM
thank you. Now I know something about FC because before I knew almost nothing. I found this http://www.halo-soma.org/about.php?sess_...96ea5593e6 about HALO and RPM. It sounds so much better than some torturing a person with ABA and a bliss board. Bliss symbols are not so specific without being able to spell out specific words with some of the bliss symbols. Spelling out words would also take so long too. I wonder if some people have developed some type of shorter hand to use. Court reporters used to use special typewriters to take down spoken word transcripts.
I can see some type of better computer/human interface being developed for people to use on a large scale -- better than just a letter keyboard, mouse or touch screen. Hopefully, something could be put together for people to use the would not be more bulky than a laptop computer, some physical devices that fold up into a small suitcase and some software. It might take the user some time to learn to use it -- but how long does it take someone to learn lip reading? I know a guy who told me that it took him more than 6 months and constant practice to lip read and it was the most difficult thing he ever did in his life.
I can see some type of better computer/human interface being developed for people to use on a large scale -- better than just a letter keyboard, mouse or touch screen. Hopefully, something could be put together for people to use the would not be more bulky than a laptop computer, some physical devices that fold up into a small suitcase and some software. It might take the user some time to learn to use it -- but how long does it take someone to learn lip reading? I know a guy who told me that it took him more than 6 months and constant practice to lip read and it was the most difficult thing he ever did in his life.
04-11-2008, 02:53 PM
Ivar T Wrote:
Lisa Jo Rudy wrote a piece on FC some time ago:
http://glclk.about.com/?zi=8/56Kp
This part was something I found cleared some stuff up abit:
http://glclk.about.com/?zi=8/56Kp
This part was something I found cleared some stuff up abit:
Quote:
Before getting involved with FC, it makes sense to try teaching a child with autism to use better-known, better-understood techniques. Some of the options include picture cards, American Sign Language, electronic tools such as augmentative speech devices, and, of course, ordinary (unsupported) typing. Not only are these techniques less controversial, but they're all more widely usable and understood.
I most certainly agree with that.
If aides are pushing someone towards FC just to make them seem more "normal" and not letting them or teaching them symbols, it is just wrong.