Aspies For Freedom - Aspies related to Neanderthal?

Neanderthals have been proved to have been a different species with whom humans did not interbreed. There is, however another possibility of connection with Cro-Magnons.

Quote:

A 2003 study on Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA, published by an Italo-Spanish research team led by David Caramelli, concluded that Neanderthals were far outside the modern human range, while Cro-Magnons were well in the average of modern Europeans. mtDNA retrieved from two Cro-Magnon specimens was identified as Haplogroup N. [6] Haplogroup N is found among modern populations of the Middle East, North Africa and Central Asia, and its descendant haplogroups is found among modern Europeans, Eurasians, East Asians and Native American populations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-Magnon

Cro-Magnon influence is found all over the world, but in Europe is found in certain sub-racial groupings called 'upper-paleolithic survivors'.

Finnish people are the most Cro-Magnoid nation in Europe.

Do they have higher incidences of autism than other European nations?

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/6/1/1507/76240
http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/v8/n10/...1299a.html

The answer is emphatically YES. Especially in the North of Finland.

Perhaps there are clues here regarding the special diets which are said to help people with ASDs. The 'Paleolithic Diet', for example which contains no dairy products.

According to the old sub-racial classifications which are based upon skull measuring, the following Europid sub-racial groupings are the most Cro-Magnoid:

East-Baltid
Borreby
Baltid
Bruenn
Dalo-Falid

Borreby is found around Germany. Bruenn is found in the far West of Ireland, Dalo-Falids and the Baltids are found further North...

Well there you go. Race as determined by morphology correlating with genetic evidence.

I would wager that a higher proportion of people with ASDs in Europe would be classified as being from one of the Cro-Magnoid sub-racial groupings than those who are NT if the Finnish evidence is anything to go by.

Oh well...

I hope that I was not too racist for the PC people on the forum. Big Grin

If you are interested in the physical anthropology of Northern Europe go here:

http://www.nordish.com

It must be added that Cro-Magnoid influences are also found in other populations such as the Berbers of North Africa. I find this most interesting and I have felt a connection to their beautiful geometrical decorative arts. There is something wonderfully primitive which runs through the white races.

Neandies were clearly idiots, as they died off.

That's good old nazi logic right there.

Viking ancestry here my old son ;p genetics wise anyway.

Yes, there are Cro-Magnoid traces (NOT Neanderthal, they DIED out) all over the place and not just in Finland.

I would like to add that physical appearance does not always equal genetics, but there have been shown to be correlations between which geneticists have mapped and what physical anthropologists (skull measurers) have mapped.

The Meditteranids (who are not really found in isolation any more, rather in combination with other sub-races) came later after the Ice Age and interbred with Cro-Magnons. There is controversy over quite what the interactions were, but...

I am going to point some examples of Cro-Magnon and Cro-Magnoid people:

This is Cro-Magnon man:

Neanderthal is on the left:

You can see that he is entirely different, but that Cro-Magnon man is the white man's white ancestor.

Cro-Magnoid people, upper paleolithic survivors:

Compare these to some non-CM European examples, and you can see the overall subtle difference:

Hair colouring and other markers are often a distraction when determining sub-race, which is why skull measuring is employed.

Sat_Chit_Anand Wrote:

Neanderthal is on the left:

.

I think I went out with that guy on the left a few years ago...

More seriously, I'm quite open to the idea that there are some *** weird things floating around the human gene pool.

But, as someone with both Australian Aboriginal and Chinese blood, may I be the first to ask what this "white man's white ancestor" stuff? Are white people suddenly a different race from the rest of homo sapiens?

Ethel Wrote:

More seriously, I'm quite open to the idea that there are some *** weird things floating around the human gene pool.

But, as someone with both Australian Aboriginal and Chinese blood, may I be the first to ask what this "white man's white ancestor" stuff? Are white people suddenly a different race from the rest of homo sapiens?

Mongolids and Australids are not descended from Cro-Magnon man. Same species of course (unlike Neanderthal man who was a different species) but a different race.

What we are looking at here is the possible connection between Cro-Magnon man and autism. Cro-Magnoid genetics are present in varying quantites within different Europid sub-racial groupings, this is because some Europids who are not Cro-Magnoid in origin are rather more descended from later Meditteranid arrivals, who introduced different forms of agriculture.

Ocampo, I do not know what you are imagining, but what I am suggesting is that autism genes were more prevalent in Cro-Magnon populations, which is not to say that they are not found elsewhere.

There is a lot of autism in Finland which has the most Cro-Magnoid population in Europe.

The Bruennid populations of Western Ireland is also CM:

Quote:

Like the Dalo-Falid type, Brünns are typically tall, broad-shouldered, and large-headed, with big bones and heavy musculature. In its unmixed form the type is usually quite easily distinguished from other local varieties, such as the shorter-statured, more gracile and more leptomorphic Keltic Nordid, with which it is cohabitant.

The modern Brünn inhabitants of western Ireland are mesocephalic to sub-brachycephalic, whereas their more easterly Cro-Magnid counterparts are typically long-headed. This is possibly due to the presence of a shorter-headed strain (such as Borreby) in the former, or to a local process of brachycephalization. The ancestral Cro-Magnid skull form was clearly dolichocranial.

The Brünn forehead is high and broad, and the face broad and mostly orthognathous. The malars are wide, the lower jaw deep and broad (yet usually not as broad as in the Dalo-Falid type), and the chin is prominent and typically clefted (the latter is foremost a male trait).

As with the other Cro-Magnid types, male Brünn facial features can be very ruggedly masculine, often with exaggeratedly pronounced browridges and deep jaws; the degree of sexual dimorphism is high, and a corresponding ruggedness is not usually observed among the females. As with Borreby women, these are typically rounder-featured and larger-breasted than the European mean.

The nose is moderately large, mesorrhine to leptorrhine, and straight in profile, with a considerable concave minority. The tip is somewhat thick, and frequently upturned. The mouth is large and the lines around the oral cavity are deeply drawn, while the lips are moderately thick and little everted. The upper lip tends characteristically towards length and convexity.

The skin, typically freckled, is very fair, and does not easily tan. The hair is brown and wavy, and often rufous (the Irish Brünn is known for its frequent red-headedness). Curly hair seems to be an Irish specialty. The eyes are light-mixed blue in the great majority of cases.

http://www.snpa.nordish.net/rg-brunn.htm

This may be of interest to you.

I classify, racially, as Dinaricised Keltic-nordic with alpinid, which comes out as 'sub-nordic'. More typical of Austria, France and Switzerland than of Scotland.

I'm just waiting for Sat to make up an excuse to "kill the blacks"

Sat_Chit_Anand Wrote:

Sorry Ian, I cannot think of one for you just now. You will just have to 'celebrate the diversity' for the moment. Tongue

Ellen, I feel the same way about paracetamol and it makes my urine smell foul.

I think that ethno-specfic medicine will become more popularized, and I will look into what you have posted when I have time.

I have been to ayurvedic doctors, an iridologist and had myself tested for food intolerances and they all seem to draw similar conclusions for me.

I cannot eat meat and I have some trouble digesting milk. No doubt there is a genetic factor here.

I also avoid the nightshade family (tomato, potato, chilli, eggplant, tobacco).

Well i'll do it meself then.

They're violent criminals Tongue

I really like the aspie-neanderthal theory; in fact when I first heard it I tried my hardest to find supporting data. But unfortunately--as far as I can tell--there’s no conclusive evidence to show Neanderthals interbred modern humans. Certainly, the genetic evidence is very much against the notion.

But the idea of the paleo-diet is something I most definitely do support. We evolved to eat a hunter-gatherer diet (meat, root vegetables, leafs and fruit). Some of us (and I'd include myself here) are ill adapted to ‘farmer foods’ (dairy, cereals, high carbohydrate or refined and processed foods) and so should emulate the H/G diet as much as possible, to remain healthy.

I must say however that I find--tomato, potato, chilli and eggplant very tasty; and have never had any ill-effects from any of these foods. So I think as long as your careful some ‘farmer foods’ can be good (Soya milk for example is a good alternative to dairy).

It says Soya on the stuff I've got in the fridge (I've just checked Tongue

)

True it's not actual 'milk'...but it does contain less fat and can lower your cholesterol.

High levels of calcium are really only needed by children when they are growing; or by post-menopausal women in order to prevent osteoporosis.

MartyMoose Wrote:

quickduck Wrote:

I really like the aspie-neanderthal theory; in fact when I first heard it I tried my hardest to find supporting data. But unfortunately--as far as I can tell--there’s no conclusive evidence to show Neanderthals interbred modern humans. Certainly, the genetic evidence is very much against the notion.

But the idea of the paleo-diet is something I most definitely do support. We evolved to eat a hunter-gatherer diet (meat, root vegetables, leafs and fruit). Some of us (and I'd include myself here) are ill adapted to ‘farmer foods’ (dairy, cereals, high carbohydrate or refined and processed foods) and so should emulate the H/G diet as much as possible, to remain healthy.

I must say however that I find--tomato, potato, chilli and eggplant very tasty; and have never had any ill-effects from any of these foods. So I think as long as your careful some ‘farmer foods’ can be good (Soya milk for example is a good alternative to dairy).

Here Is your supporting Data!!
http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/Neanderthal.html
http://home.entouch.net/dmd/hybrid.htm

But these articles post date those above and suggests it's unlikely there was any interbreeding.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/967119.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3023685.stm

I really, really, really want to believe this theory...but the evidence presented in the article is based on physical behavioural and similarities and analogous observations; it doesn’t give us any direct evidence of interbreeding; and until such evidence appears it all supposition I‘m afraid.

http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm#Australopithecus

I'm sorry, Australopithicus? That was little more than a Chimpanzee as far as i'm aware.

Unfortunately, the article haven't been updated with the latest data from Aspie-quiz, where evidence is mounting. Some points I will make if I eventually get Aspie-quiz published (interesting people can get a draft of the article about Aspie-quiz):

1. Explained variance in 33 versions of Aspie-quiz almost perfectly match key dates. 1.8 million years for the split of Homo, 150,000 years for the origin of Hs (calibration point) and 33,000 years for hybridization in Europe. Analysing Asians separately yields the same age for the split of Homo, but 44,000 years for the hybridization.

2. The prevalence in African-Americans seems to be 1/6, and this have been replicated in six different versions now. Prevalence of Asians and Amerindians is basically the same.

3. A model of two independent bell-curves matches the score distribution almost perfectly, while a single bell-curve is a bad match.

4. The hunting-groups in Aspie-quiz directly builds on the Neanderthal theory, and the traits in them are highly related.

5. In the last version it is shown that Aspie-scores are highly correlated with two factors in the big-five personality-test (extrovert and neuroticism) and moderately with the others.

6. All other psychiatric subtests have ended up as correlated to Aspie-quiz scores.

7. The "Giftedness in Adults" test is correlated to the two talent groups in Aspie-quiz

8. About 70% of human variation seems to be attrubutable to ASD-traits.

I don't think the Cro-Magnon theory can explain these findings. Especially not the large amount of diversity, and the similar prevalence in Asians and Amerindians, or the higher loading on g-factor in Asians.

Neanderthals were never proven to be a different species. It's still classified as "Homo sapiens neanderthalensis" sometimes. What has been proven is that neanderthals were not previous to modern humans, but co-existing with them. But whether it's an own human species (like f.x. Homo habilis was) or a different sub-species (like f.x. Homo sapiens idaltu was) is unclear.