Aspies For Freedom

I have a similar kind of intelligence to you Batman--it does count.
Our intelligence doesn’t have to lead to a practical or marketable skill to make it worthwhile. It permeates every aspect of our lives; it defines who we are.

I found the hardest part of obtaining a degree is getting there. Once you're on a course it's very hard to flunk out (although I came close a couple of times). Most of to work isn't too very difficult--or is as hard as you want to make it. The main problem I found was getting organised...getting started, getting work in on time etc.
Don't go thinking that all people who get a degree are hyper-intelligent; some are, but the vast majority are not. To my way of thinking you're at least as intelligent as anyone I went to college with.

Also Batman...consider our mutural AFF friends Tigger, Rossco and Ethereal. None of these people have a degree (at least to my knowledge) and they are at least as clever as you or I.

OK, I have a few problems with this. The value of a person is NOT dependent on intelligence or how profitable you are considered economically in this society, however these things are defined. I have a similar difficulty, except that I can plan things pretty extensively, but only follow through on less than 1% of these plans. That's what makes it hard for me to initiate things like brushing my teeth and doing schoolwork and going to sleep, and it's why I usually need to be prompted to do these things, or it won't be until 3 in the morning that I finally get to bed, when it's at 5 in the morning I need to get up (and I lack what most other people my age seem to have, which is the ability to get through the day on minimal sleep).

So if your type of intelligence doesn't seem to be giving you an edge in the job market, or help you get a degree, doesn't mean it isn't a valid or important type of intelligence. I also disagree with your statement that it's people of "higher" or average intelligence who get to decide what's valid or not. After all, if a group of people considered to be either normal or above normal in a particular type of intelligence are the ones entrusted with the duty to decide "which" is the valuable kind, they're going to value the kind that they've got an upper hand in.

After all, if you're playing a card game, and the card you're playing is an ace, and the other player asks you if an ace will be a good or a bad thing to have - you get to make up the rule - wouldn't you say an ace is a good thing to have? And likewise, if the other player had an ace and you didn't, wouldn't the person without the ace (but has the power to make up the rule and thus decide who has the upper hand in the game) decide that an ace is a bad thing to have? It's not about the inherent value in having an ace or not having it - it's about what gets tacitly agreed upon as being the better one. And this shifts throughout societies and time. It's not a constant measure that indicates the truth of human consensus, as the human consensus depends upon location and time, and varies accordingly.

I went to school with very affluent kids where that was the dominant philosophy, although the area I actually lived in wasn't quite that extreme.  (I lived in a middle-class family in a neighborhood that mixed working-class and middle-class families, and eventually went to schools that were mostly very-upper-middle-class and rich kids, so I encountered this stuff in school more than at home.)

So I know what it's like to have only academic-type intelligence count with some people, which is why I became terrified when my ability to sustain academic-type tasks fell to pieces in puberty.  (I did go to college but don't have a degree.)  I literally didn't think I had a future, because I hadn't been presented with other choices.

On the other hand, I have a friend who grew up in a working-class neighborhood that was actively anti-intellectual and tried to squash her academic aspirations at every turn, calling that sort of thing worthless and making fun of it (and valuing different skills instead).

I think both of the attitudes -- that academic-type skills are the only ones that count, and the other attitude that they count for nothing and are just something to poke fun of at best -- those are both really messed-up attitudes for kids to have to deal with.  They're the sort of thing, where if they pop up in my head, I have little trouble dismissing them anymore, because I know they're just prejudices I learned.

This is an interesting question.  
As I've gotten older, and especially in the last few years as I've been reflecting on my life, I've found myself "reframing" my attitude towards my childhood. Pertinent to this topic, I'm now grateful for aspects of my parents' tough love approach.  For sure, I felt like they didn't understand me and I was pushed into situations and activities that I hated, which reinforced my sense of their cluelessness.  BUT, there were good sides to not having been allowed to "wallow in aspieness" (although that's not how it would have been described at the time).

I felt like I had no choice but to go out into the world and be independent.  There was no fall-back person or relationship to take care of me.

Batman...I'm torn regarding you.  There are times that I want to address you with all my various thoughts about you and your situation.  You get the award as the poster who irritates me the most. But I don't know how to do this in a way that would be both compassionate and helpful.  Your situation scares me on your behalf.  I feel like you're setting yourself up for a life that's even more difficult than the life you already have.  I find myself mentally screaming STOP!  CUT!  QUIT THE GAMES!

And yet....I don't know your true situation, so who am I to judge it?  So I can ask questions:

What is your heart's true desire?
How can somebody help your grow towards realizing this?

What do you want from us?  Those who see your desperate need for validation and who get rebuffed when the validation that's offered isn't acceptable to you?

I had a friend very similar to Batman in some ways. She forever used to put herself down but when friends told her she was smart, clever, kind, and so on, she just couldn't accept it. I'm even a bit that way myself. I can accept compliments graciously but deep down I don't always believe them.

So I can kind of understand where Batman is coming from. I don't think there is anything in the way of advice that is really going to work. But I agree with the idea of asking him what he truly desires in life. We're not exactly clear on that point right now.

I'll just note that my childhood was far from pleasant, and I was expected to do what everyone else did.  This did not result in super-functionality on my part.  It just resulted in utter confusion when I would go to do something and it would just not happen.  Over and over.

Some things truly are not within one's capacities but other things are, if one is willing to risk, be disciplined, and have desire.  It can be hard to figure out which is which, I think, when faced with limitations or blockages.

Batman, I see you as being relentlessly self-defeating.  It's as if you've formed your entire identity around being defective.  I do think it's possible, from the perspective of a different framework of self-identity, to see possibilities rather than it being all limitations.

Batman, it occurred to me last night in a blinding flash of insight that much of your current difficulties can be attributed that score of 99 you got on an IQ test.

It has acted like a curse and a blight on your life and destroyed your confidence. It's important to remember these tests are indicative only and are not completely accurate. Also, different kinds of tests will show varying results.

I doubt you will be happy until you can do another test and get a higher result. But don't forget, these tests only show some kinds of intelligence and are somewhat biased towards maths abilities.

You are probably like me, better on the humanities and creative side of things, and there is nothing wrong with that. But again, I doubt you will believe anybody but an official type person telling you that you are very intelligent.

Batman--I and some others tell you things you may not want to hear.  And so you get angry.  It's worth really asking yourself what that anger is about.  What is at the heart of it?

Also, if everyone reinforced your identity of being a victim, would this truly feel validating to you?  How would this help you move forward in your life?

I'll repeat my earlier question:  What is your heart's true desire?

I imagine that any attempt to answer this question may bring up anxiety, fear, grief, anger....lots of scary, hard to deal with, emotions.  These come from  not knowing who one really is or what one really wants.  Or, from knowing this, but believing that one cannot have the heart's desires fulfilled.  Either way, there's suffering involved with asking this question to oneself.  So, there's a natural tendency to avoid, deflect, lash out, numb out--that is, to find strategies that keep pain at a distance.  But these defenses only stall...they don't heal the pain.

Sometimes, the only way to heal from pain is to first truly experience it.

I hope that some true help and grace and support will come to you, Batman.
You appear to me to be in tremendous pain and anxiety.
It's a tough place to be.

I also didn't appreciate telling a counsellor fairly private stuff and then getting a metaphorical kick in the guts. I felt very betrayed and angry but disengaged, ran away, etc. This was especially the case if they were initially nice and then said stuff like "you've got to change", "It's all your fault", "that was pretty stupid".

It was as if they were sucking me in only to spit me out. Thankfully, only a few were that bad, but it really knocks your faith in counselling. I also thought I didn't pay them to insult me. The idea was they were meant to help or at least listen and that was all.

Batman, it's pretty apparent that you BELIEVE you're defective.
You remind us of this belief on a regular basis.
And your envy of people who have skills you think you lack bleeds out all over.

Yet, if I or someone else said to you, "You are defective -- a miserable excuse for a human being" or some such, I hypothesize that you would get pretty defensive because deep down in your heart I imagine that you DON'T accept this image as your true self.

For some reason, or set of reasons, it suits your purpose to see yourself as defective.  Are you asking us to tell you that this is okay? How would this kind of validation help you?

Batman, I don't know what your true talents and strengths and gifts are.  Nobody here does.  

I CAN say from personal experience that being grateful for what I have as opposed to mournful for what I lack has brought happiness and peacefulness into my life.  As I get older, and see even much older people in my environment lose their health and their abilities and their friends or partners, I am becoming more mindful of how much I have to lose--and this makes me appreciative of having what I now still have.

My concern for you, Batman, is that your life is passing you by while you wallow in your perceived defectiveness.  This makes me sad on your behalf.

Okay, I'm curious.
Batman--what is your typical day like?  What do you do? How long do you spend doing the various things that you do? Who, if anyone, do you interact with, offline or online?  How do you contribute to the maintenance of your household?  Whatever similar unasked questions along this line that you care to answer?