OK, don't you see this is the same kind of post that gets you upset when other people have typed it?
You indicate you think that someone with the above listed attributes lacks intelligence that "counts".
Who are you to decide which intelligence "counts" and which does not?
How do you know that there aren't many people reading this thread who have exactly that kind of intelligence? Of course, it "counts"!
Don't believe that the only kind of intelligence which "counts" is the kind which you have decided you don't have.
That is as daft a position as the opposite, i.e. that the only kind of intelligence that "counts" is the kind that you do have!
I have a similar kind of intelligence to you Batman--it does count.
Our intelligence doesn’t have to lead to a practical or marketable skill to make it worthwhile. It permeates every aspect of our lives; it defines who we are.
I'm with you on that one! Anything I create might not be seen as economically useful but it certainly doesn't mean a lack of intelligence - it is just a different kind of intelligence - no less valid than any other.
I don't really know what to say Batman55 - it seems that you are having a big confidence crisis and I know from when I have confidence crises (which on 2 occasions ledt me to beg my father to kill me - and yes I was being serious at the time) that there is not really anything anyone can say to change how you are feeling about yourself right now.
As for creativity combined with slowness not being counted as intelligence, all I can say is that I managed to get a degree (which is probably going to make you disregard what I say now!) through slow creativity.
My degree is in composition. I can't write essays - I can struggle to write my own name! I don't read too well and also if you ask me what I just read I would't have a clue!
But somehow my brain allows me to compose music. Music that my tutors thought was good. So I got a postgraduate qualification in composition. No essays, no reading, just a portfolio of compositions.
So certainly in my case, my slow, autistic, learning disabled and *** brain can still work for me.
Please try not to give up hope Batman55
OK, I have a few problems with this. The value of a person is NOT dependent on intelligence or how profitable you are considered economically in this society, however these things are defined. I have a similar difficulty, except that I can plan things pretty extensively, but only follow through on less than 1% of these plans. That's what makes it hard for me to initiate things like brushing my teeth and doing schoolwork and going to sleep, and it's why I usually need to be prompted to do these things, or it won't be until 3 in the morning that I finally get to bed, when it's at 5 in the morning I need to get up (and I lack what most other people my age seem to have, which is the ability to get through the day on minimal sleep).
So if your type of intelligence doesn't seem to be giving you an edge in the job market, or help you get a degree, doesn't mean it isn't a valid or important type of intelligence. I also disagree with your statement that it's people of "higher" or average intelligence who get to decide what's valid or not. After all, if a group of people considered to be either normal or above normal in a particular type of intelligence are the ones entrusted with the duty to decide "which" is the valuable kind, they're going to value the kind that they've got an upper hand in.
After all, if you're playing a card game, and the card you're playing is an ace, and the other player asks you if an ace will be a good or a bad thing to have - you get to make up the rule - wouldn't you say an ace is a good thing to have? And likewise, if the other player had an ace and you didn't, wouldn't the person without the ace (but has the power to make up the rule and thus decide who has the upper hand in the game) decide that an ace is a bad thing to have? It's not about the inherent value in having an ace or not having it - it's about what gets tacitly agreed upon as being the better one. And this shifts throughout societies and time. It's not a constant measure that indicates the truth of human consensus, as the human consensus depends upon location and time, and varies accordingly.
Yes, don't listen to those people in your hometown. Having qualifications and a "good" job doesn't necessarily mean happiness. How many of these people have crippling levels of personal debt, jobs that they truly despise, and impossible mortgages? All is not as it seems.
Now if the opposite had occurred--if I had been through a much more chaotic childhood, roughed up, or moved around to different homes and locations--is it likely that I'd be a strong human being now, who can handle challenges as they come?
This is an interesting question.
As I've gotten older, and especially in the last few years as I've been reflecting on my life, I've found myself "reframing" my attitude towards my childhood. Pertinent to this topic, I'm now grateful for aspects of my parents' tough love approach. For sure, I felt like they didn't understand me and I was pushed into situations and activities that I hated, which reinforced my sense of their cluelessness. BUT, there were good sides to not having been allowed to "wallow in aspieness" (although that's not how it would have been described at the time).
I felt like I had no choice but to go out into the world and be independent. There was no fall-back person or relationship to take care of me.
Batman...I'm torn regarding you. There are times that I want to address you with all my various thoughts about you and your situation. You get the award as the poster who irritates me the most. But I don't know how to do this in a way that would be both compassionate and helpful. Your situation scares me on your behalf. I feel like you're setting yourself up for a life that's even more difficult than the life you already have. I find myself mentally screaming STOP! CUT! QUIT THE GAMES!
And yet....I don't know your true situation, so who am I to judge it? So I can ask questions:
What is your heart's true desire?
How can somebody help your grow towards realizing this?
What do you want from us? Those who see your desperate need for validation and who get rebuffed when the validation that's offered isn't acceptable to you?
Some things truly are not within one's capacities but other things are, if one is willing to risk, be disciplined, and have desire. It can be hard to figure out which is which, I think, when faced with limitations or blockages.
Batman, I see you as being relentlessly self-defeating. It's as if you've formed your entire identity around being defective. I do think it's possible, from the perspective of a different framework of self-identity, to see possibilities rather than it being all limitations.
That is why I believe, however ruthlessly, that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Even the most negative of experiences can result in wonderful outcomes.
Yeah. Or they can completely wear down your reserves and break you down.
I'll just note that my childhood was far from pleasant, and I was expected to do what everyone else did. This did not result in super-functionality on my part. It just resulted in utter confusion when I would go to do something and it would just not happen. Over and over.
Exactly. Some people's brains are just designed so they adapt more as they go on, whether they have predominantly positive, accepting environment as a child or if their experience is primarily negative and intolerant. No amount of "tough love" will change the abilities of some people. Only time and will determine that.
I have an early memory of a joke based on a wordgame. A bodice is a female garment that is tied with strings in the back. In Swedish it's called "liv" but that word has two meanings; the other is "life". The joke went like this. The man says to his wife to come into the bedroom so he can take (off) her life. Or in other words kill her. That was supposed to be a funny wordplay.
So one day as I was going for a walk I met my brother (+3years) coming home and he asked what I was going to do. I said I was going to drown myself, ha ha ha... When I came back home it wasn't ha ha ha anymore...
I remember other things that was very confusing for me when I grew up (still is, somewhat). Dual meanings!!!
Hi Batman55.
Here are links to a couple of things I read recently about the 'high functioning' label.
They didn't necessarily make anything any better but they certainly did make me think and it did reassure me to see that others are confused, even angry, about these things too.
I don't know if they will be of any interest or help but I thought I would post them just in case.
http://aspergersquare8.blogspot.com/2008...label.html
http://autisticbfh.blogspot.com/2006/12/...t-too.html
Apologies to those who have already seen these.
P.S. Moderators - I'm not sure if I'm supposed to break up these links? I tried to break up link before but I did it wrong and no-one could put it together in a way that made it work!
Sorry if I have not broken them up when I am supposed to - if someone could do this for me that would be great. Thanks.
Batman--I and some others tell you things you may not want to hear. And so you get angry. It's worth really asking yourself what that anger is about. What is at the heart of it?
Also, if everyone reinforced your identity of being a victim, would this truly feel validating to you? How would this help you move forward in your life?
I'll repeat my earlier question: What is your heart's true desire?
I imagine that any attempt to answer this question may bring up anxiety, fear, grief, anger....lots of scary, hard to deal with, emotions. These come from not knowing who one really is or what one really wants. Or, from knowing this, but believing that one cannot have the heart's desires fulfilled. Either way, there's suffering involved with asking this question to oneself. So, there's a natural tendency to avoid, deflect, lash out, numb out--that is, to find strategies that keep pain at a distance. But these defenses only stall...they don't heal the pain.
Sometimes, the only way to heal from pain is to first truly experience it.
I hope that some true help and grace and support will come to you, Batman.
You appear to me to be in tremendous pain and anxiety.
It's a tough place to be.
Batman, it's pretty apparent that you BELIEVE you're defective.
You remind us of this belief on a regular basis.
And your envy of people who have skills you think you lack bleeds out all over.
Yet, if I or someone else said to you, "You are defective -- a miserable excuse for a human being" or some such, I hypothesize that you would get pretty defensive because deep down in your heart I imagine that you DON'T accept this image as your true self.
For some reason, or set of reasons, it suits your purpose to see yourself as defective. Are you asking us to tell you that this is okay? How would this kind of validation help you?
Batman, I don't know what your true talents and strengths and gifts are. Nobody here does.
I CAN say from personal experience that being grateful for what I have as opposed to mournful for what I lack has brought happiness and peacefulness into my life. As I get older, and see even much older people in my environment lose their health and their abilities and their friends or partners, I am becoming more mindful of how much I have to lose--and this makes me appreciative of having what I now still have.
My concern for you, Batman, is that your life is passing you by while you wallow in your perceived defectiveness. This makes me sad on your behalf.
It is amazing that still, no one on this site will acknowledge what these simple facts of mine might mean. Lack of intelligence, dare I say it?
I guess everyone is afraid of bursting that artificial bubble of positivity.
Why can't people just see the facts and give me what I want. I need to know I am defective... and I will need outside parties to confirm it.
Is it too much to ask for such confirmation?
I wonder if all this might be an unconscious ploy to get validation.
No one can make you feel good about yourself batman --- the validation has to come from within.
Okay, I'm curious.
Batman--what is your typical day like? What do you do? How long do you spend doing the various things that you do? Who, if anyone, do you interact with, offline or online? How do you contribute to the maintenance of your household? Whatever similar unasked questions along this line that you care to answer?