Aspies For Freedom

Nice new avatar, Miss Nomer.  (If your heart was broken you'd be dead.....)

I think the first time it happens it can be very nasty, sort of like an asteroid collision, maybe if it was a one-way idea to begin with???  For me it took 1 year, two months for enough dirt to fall out of the atmosphere to see the sun again (depression to subside enough to function academically at a previous level).  It was actually a little more than a year later when I had peace about it (starting to respect Jesus, eventually became a Christian, did extinguish a lot of anger issues).

Maybe in subsequent go arounds we can brush it aside a lot better.  It didn't kill us the first time, did it?  Then, yes, we agree on what you said.

When ya'll get in your 30s, you will understand pretty well that there is no alternative but to let people make decisions, even if people end up making mistakes or prejudicing us frequently.  

The way things flow for most of us, generally, up to our mid-30s, there really is a significant relationship gap between us and the NTs.
They marry, they cohabit, basically, well you know what they do.  You know what we don't do.  

Here is generally why.

A judge can order restitution many ways, but not even God can tell a woman to go out with some Aspie guy even if God is right.  It has to free will right or wrong, and the way it flows, it is usually wrong.

There is a lot of social flow going on between guys and girls at college age.  The college tries some attempts at regulation, primarily to stop the gross abuses such as rape or domestic violence.  

It is fortunate society has allowed openness on account of race and orientation: personal freedom is not something to apologize for.  

But adults are not going to be talked to like two year olds: so if we start suggesting disability/non-disability freedom often enough, non-disabled adults are going to react as though we think they are bigots.  And maybe just as well date someone else without a disability.  

Non-disabled people might pretend friendship because they believe it is the proper thing to do.  They are not going to make lifelong spouse decisions, though, based on that.

So what if we educate the NTs about this?

Do we really want a confused NT with us for the wrong reasons, however happy to see us sharing our gifts?

How do we educate without contaminating what they feel, their free will?

College: even in the absence of harassment and abuse we know we are not the same as the NTs, because we do not have the opportunities they do.  Call it unwritten romantic discrimination.  We know when "our place" is different from theirs, and we have feelings.

Well done on getting as far as you have (I'm currently in a somewhat similar situation and haven't worked up the courage to do anymore than add him to facebook).

I also hate coffee but i get around this when going out for coffee (not that its something i do frequently) by ordering a milkshake or a piece of cake instead which most coffee places do.
Another option is inviting her to see a movie with you which i think can seem completely casual is done right. I would suggest that you talk to her first about a movie that you think would be interesting and that is coming out soon or has just come out (this would be quite easy to research one on a cinema website). This would seem casual and not implying anything because discusing movies is a normal thing for friends to do. After discusing the movie with her suggest you go to see it together.

I find going to the cinema perfect for getting to know someone better without the whole pressure of conversation. You get to spend 2/3 hours with a person but only need to spend around 20 mins of that having to think of things to say. And you can fill the time before the movie with the basic conversation patterns of "how are you?", "what have you been up to recently?" and "did you see ... on tv? what did you think?". After the film you have the film you can talk about.

This is the best method i have for getting to know and spend time with someone i like. It's worked pretty well in the past.

Yes, I felt that very much at college and for years beyond. There was somehow a feeling of being cut off and being considered "not quite good enough".

"How Chris Marsh Learned His Place"
and Other Stories

So you see an attractive work colleague but shrink back because you do not think you are on "her level?"  I think that goes back to the kind of girls in high school who were chatty and attractive and quiet guys weren't supposed to talk to them and if they did they were ignored.  So you are friendly but you do let some interest show, and as she seems to let "not much of anything" show you take that as being ignored again.

And what about seeing the popular girls being easily able to chat and laugh with the guys but being so painfully shy that even if a boy looked at me, I could hardly look back. I guess it goes to show that we are usually well behind the starting line when it comes to love and romance.

WHAT are you talking about?  Just WHAT?  People are free to do this already.  

And?  So?  Big deal.  My wife didn't make her lifelong spouse decision based on that, certainly, but she DID make a lifelong spouse decision to be with me.

About WHAT?

I went through a LOT of hurt in college.  We're talking howling at the top of my lungs outside of windows hurt.  But I just kept pitching and plugging along.  Why?  Maybe it's because I'm so severely Aspergic that I JUST CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHEN TO QUIT!

Guess what--I have four children now.  I have an ex-wife and a current wife, so I'm doing something right along with the wrong, I'll claim.  The right thing I've been doing, as far as I can tell, is just not being smart enough to know when to quit.

"Normal" people eventually "get it".  They give up on things that are "impossible".  Me, I guess it's that Aspergic perseveration thing, but I never was able to quit when it came to having a one-on-one romantic relationship.  No matter how BADLY I might have done it, I just never quit.

Happened to me a lot.  I never noticed that I was being ignored.  It was one of those "social cues" that I've a hard time picking up on.  I just plowed my way through.

NO!
WRONG!
STOP!
HALTEN SIE!

Sit right down, there, Mister!  It's time for you to learn the technique called "time binding".  I am "Dogbrain", but I am also NOT "Dogbrain".  I am more accurately "Dogbrain-in-May-of-2008".  "Dogbrain-in-May-of-2008" is not the exact, perfectly identically same person as "Dogbrain-in-May-of-2007".  There are certainly many similarities, but we are not identically the same person, either externally or internally.  Not only is one "older" than the other, but emotional responses, knowledge, and a whole host of other attributes are different, however subtly.  The realization and internalization of the knowledge that TIME, itself is an important identifier in determining "who" or "what" something actually "is" can be known as "Time Binding".

You are failing to apply Time Binding in your current situation.  Right now, at this moment, she does not "know you well".  So what?  That is RIGHT NOW, AT THIS MOMENT!  Apply Time Binding.  Right now, at this moment is not eternal.  You can prove it merely by observing the physical universe.  Change always occurs over time.  This is also true when it comes to whether or not someone "knows you well".

The decision to "move on" shows that you do not understand nor use Time Binding.  If you used Time Binding, you would understand that her statement could very well be a statement *of the moment* and not one that will be true "for all time".  That is, "Dustin-May-08-2008" is "not known well" by this girl.  This automatically predicts nothing at all about "Dustin-May-08-2009".  The status of "Dustin-May-08-2009" is CURRENTLY UNKNOWN.  Since it is in the "future", it is at least partially in your hands to control that status regarding how well "known" this "Dustin-May-08-2009" might be in comparison to "Dustin-May-08-2008".

Try applying Time Binding to your situations.  I am not always me.  The me of yesterday is a different person in some respect from the me of today.  This is true of everything.

Adults do not want a lecture about romantic discrimination against a bunch of Aspies (or fat people for that matter).

"F__ you, you telling me who to like?"
It's his/her fault for eating like a slob or acting like a ____.  (Sorry but that is what they would shoot back)

Maybe they could tolerate a soft pedaled bumper sticker or T shirt slogan that I Love My Aspie or Fatso.

Discrimination?

THIS IS NOT A LEGAL ISSUE!  I couldn't stand being around women who liked certain styles of clothing.  I was not committing "discrimination".  I was exercising my freedom of taste.

IT IS NOT A MATTER OF "DISCRIMINATION"!

It is NOT a matter of ethics, nor of morals, nor of law.  The techniques of ethics, morals, and law DO NOT APPLY.  STOP TRYING TO APPLY THEM.

Take the time and effort to learn the language!  You're acting like a stereotypical "ugly American" who keeps screaming in English at people in other countries and then gets upset when they don't all speak English at him.

In essence, you're treating NT's like NT's treat us.

Sociologically speaking, prejudice is prejudice and discriminaton is discrimination.  Of course there is no law on our side.  But it does not morally justify the treatment of a different group of people.

There was a scene in the book Guns of the South by Harry Turtledove (I think that was the book).  Whatever the law did for African Americans in terms of public accommodations, voting, the courts, and employment, it did not apply in social circles, the church pews, certainly not in marriage.  The law does not require anyone to be friends.  It does require orderly behavior between individuals.

But on the other hand, we don't want a woman out to prove to herself that she is open minded enough to marry some Aspie.  That is reverse discrimination, that is not considering us as individuals either.  

I wanted to be careful in my own mind when I dated a woman in Woodbridge some years back.  I didn't want to just dismiss her on a gut feeling "gee, she seems really stupid in addition to being obviously morbidly obese."  I've known her for some years as a friend (I hope she doesn't expect I am still dating her because I am not).  I really do not think she has an interest in the same curiousities and possibilities I do (were there advanced civilizations in prehistory? for example).  I am also aware of the precise nature of her personal difficulties and I think she has more important things to worry about than falling in love.  

It takes time, patience, and some effort to make an educated decision on a person.  But it is better than prejudice.