Aspies For Freedom

I agree, grizeldatee.

I think school is difficult and frustrating for most people, though in varying degrees and for various reasons. People who need more time, or alternate ways of learning things, or exposure to subjects that actually interest them, learning things at a faster pace, are just some kinds of people who struggle in the school system (I personally match all of these things).

I know in 7th grade I really wanted to drop out, and they were going to send a tutor to come by once a week to review studies with me so I didn't have to actually attend (this was partially because of bullying, but had as much to do with the flaws of the standardized school system and general burnout). It never happened, but a year later I got to transfer to a different high school.

At least as of right now it's still legal to homeschool in California even if you don't have a degree.The case right now is on appeal.

There are liberal secularists that homeschool. Most critics I have read want standards for homeschooled children to make sure that they are actually educated.

And I'm guessing that sex ed is what you mean by "radical sexual agendas".  Parents shouldn't be able to opt their children out of sex ed. I had sex ed in public school and it's really boring to be honest.

Promoting ignorance (aka abstinence only education) is not the way to go. It certainly isn't going to prevent sex. A child is not going to become sexually active simply because he or she learned about condoms in school.

The only other 'agenda' I can think of is gay acceptance and I fail to see the big production over that one. I couldn't care less if a person is gay. Certainly you can't turn people gay.

And saying that liberal secularists want to abolish the family is paranoia or at the very least extreme ignorance. You may find a few on the extreme fringe that support that view, but the vast majority does not want to break up families.

It may not be right-wing paranoia, but it sounds like you've been reading religious propaganda.  

My information was shared against my wishes when I graduated both high school and college. The worst I got was a phone call from a recruiter. I hung up on the recruiter both times and nothing happened.

I do think that children should have the ability to opt out, but you aren't going to be drafted because the recruiter has your name.

Of course even if the school doesn't share information with recruiters, males will still have to sign up with the government when they turn 18.
Those who do not want to fight can indicate that they are objectors on the form.

I do think that Selective Service should be abolished, but that isn't the issue here. Neither Democrats or Republicans seem to want it gone.

Well the whole 'spread of democracy' thing is pure propaganda. American governments will support dictators (like Saddam!) when it is in the nation's best interest.

Certainly it's no surprise that Neo-cons and like-minded ilk aren't democratic warriors.

I'll agree that homeschooling isn't a right or left issue. But you're going off on unrelated tangents.

Certainly there are problems with public schools and they only get worse with crappy legislation like NCLB. However school systems vary and no schooling system is perfect. I don't think that the public school system should be abandoned.

I'm more interested in educating kids and teaching them critical thinking skills. And I'm far more appalled at ignorance than I am at profanity. Unfortunately a lot of ignorance and outright lie (like creationism) is taught to homeschooled children as fact.

Of course homeschooling isn't the only alternative: there is also the private school option.

First of all, ancedote is not a substitute for data.

While this particular school and system may be bad, it doesn't mean that all public school systems are just as bad.

I could easily rebut your story with a homeschooling horror story.

Personally I think that your homeschooling rant would've been better if it hadn't been so bogged down with your tangents on war, religion, and supposed agendas.

Simply making the case that sometimes public or private schools fail a child and that homeschooling can be a viable alternative would have sufficed.

Personally i'd argue that when done properly by competent parents or professional private tutors homeschooling is VASTLY superior to public school. Of course this is just an opinion that I have no data to hand to prove.

The problem is that you can't form a system that serves the educational needs of everybody (or, as I'd argue, the majority). In my literature classes in high school, we usually only read maybe 3 novels in a year. Most people can read more than that in a year, but I am tremendously not well-read despite the desire and ability to read many books, fictional and non-fictional. I am simply so worn out from the school day (and this was pretty much true before I started having extended school days).

As for multiple perspectives, you can read them. Whether it's philosophy or psychology or whatever other topic, if you have a library card you can probably find some people's written perspectives on it. And there's the Internet, too.

In public school, it has been my experience that there is much more not-learning time, but it is not as though sitting at home and relaxing. It is stressful, and yet I'm not learning or doing anything productive (not even including lunch). All the crowds and noise and lighting at my school, will overload me so that by 11:30 I'm exhausted and can barely manage to do things I'm supposed to do. And I still have more than 5 hours to go until school ends.

Keep in mind that I'm very lucky. My school, most students are very accepting or at least tolerant of differences, so bullying is practically a non-issue for me. I have excellent teachers, and am learning things in courses that challenge me. I do get a lot of crap from administrative people, but that's not an everyday thing. However, I am so exhausted and every semester go from being an A student to failing in each class, and then salvaging my grades to be at least a C average so I can stay. In fact, the only reason I stay at my current school is because of the classes they offer in creative writing, and that I've made friends there.

I actually believe that public education is unnatural.  Homeschooling does need to be regulated at least minimally.  I don't see a problem with the parents having to follow a basic curriculum, being required to keep records and having the children write some standardized tests.  Parents wanting to pool their resources and form small private schools should be allowed as well.  Whether homeschoolers should receive government funding or be exempt from educational taxes is another issue.  

If they parents want to homeschool to avoid their children from being indoctrinated with sexual or other propaganda is might be their right but also some groups homeschool to teach their children propaganda such as racism, hate etc.  And then there are the ones who run home businesses that disguise child labour or neglect and abuse as homeschooling.  

Most of the complaints from parents I hear is the large class sizes, the amount of meaningless homework and the lack of basic skills some children lack.  Maybe I should volunteer at a school?

I don't know if allowing a free market system for public education such as allowing private companies to set up contracts to educate children or allow parents vochers to fund private schools of their choice would work to efficiently.  For profit schools would not be too great I can imagine.   They would try to cut costs and maximize the profits without regard to the parents wishes.   I did attend a private school that recruited foreign students for excessive fees.  This made a few problems for the local students and exploited the foreign students.  

Vocher systems might work if there were controls on the schools quality and curriculum.  Usually the poor are disadvantaged when this happens because they can not afford transportation to the "good" schools that are not in their neighbourhood.  

Another factor in the homeschool/public school debate is just culture.  Do children benefit more from a family based environment or more from a peer environment?  

I was not aware that the Greeks, Romans and Chinese had an ancient tradition of public schools.  However, these were not inclusive to all classes since they all had slavery and a strict caste/class system.  I do not believe that slave children went to school.  Maybe I should research this.  It could be interesting.

Maybe your dad thought you weren't ready to tackle campus life and certainly one big drawback was that you seemed to have eaten so much more than you would have at home where your parents could have kept an eye on your diet.

Seems as if your mum wanted you and your brother out of the place as soon as possible. That has its good and bad points. It depends on one's philosophy about family. Now if I had kids who were very hard to handle, I wouldn't mind if they moved out early but otherwise, I'd rather they stayed as long as they liked.

There is this common misconception that homeschooled kids just stay at home all the time. Actually, they don't. They go shopping and learn about the value of money; they go on trips to the park, maybe play with the neighbour's kids after school; they could also go to the museum or even travel with their parents to other towns and countries.

Most parents are homeschooling because the regular schools are not providing proper protection against bullying or in other ways are not meeting the particular requirements of these children. It's about time school authorities got really serious about tackling bullying and didn't just pretend it doesn't happen or that it is the victim's fault in some way.

School authorities have a duty of care to ensure their charges are properly cared for and not exposed to the risks of being physically and mentally scarred by bullying; whether it is from other students or teachers.

I also wonder if you've really done much research about home schooling, as Korrigan suggests.

Maybe your dad didn't want you to get big as well. It seems as if there is often a genetic basis to obesity. I wonder if you had the diabetes before you became obese, or after. Again, there is often a genetic component with diabetes.

Depends how tall your mum was but unless she was very short, she must have been quite underweight.

Lots of luck, Korrigan. Given the results of previous discussions with Chris at least, I found it well nigh impossible to insert some ideas into his understanding.

Not because he is lacking intelligence but because in some ways, he can be very blinkered. It's probably the result of lack of experience in life. I got very aggravated when told "I hear you CJ" because I'm not interested in anybody "hearing what I say" if it means they just keep on repeating the same errors.

I don't know Wondering very well but suspect he could have a blinkered point of view as well.

Chris, everybody who has a heart has it broken sometimes. If you'd have been at home when this woman at college gave you a hard time, you might have been able to get moral support and not nearly broken down.

If there are women of childbearing age where you work and you like them and they like you, why you do what most people do, you see about dating them even if it is just as friends.

Well, Korrigan has direct experience of a school system failing her child. So have nearly all home schooling parents. I mean, why should they have to put up with substandard teaching plus kids and teachers being allowed to bully their children  when they can do better at home to teach them properly and protect them from bullies?

I think they could do something if they really wanted to but they refrain from doing so. It's pointless putting the responsibility back onto the parents as the school is acting in their place and has a duty of care to look after the children properly during the school day.

Huess Who, I don't know what kind of Christianity would condemn a person because they have one little blot on their soul. Under that reasoning, nobody would go to heaven because we have all "sinned and fallen short of the grace of God".

Do you really think God would have wanted everybody to fail his tests?

I'll bring this back to homeschooling. Whilst I am in favour of homeschooling, I would be very nervous indeed about kids being taught the kinds of errors you are propounding.

Wondering, one of the main issues autistic children have is learning to socialise. They DO NOT usually just pick it up naturally within the school system or elsewhere. Just leaving them to the untrammelled vagaries of the school playground is asking for trouble. Bullies should not be allowed to get away with their nefarious activities unchecked!

See, I think we need to look at practicalities and the here and now rather than some ideal theory about how schools should be. There are children and their parents who are hurting now and they simply cannot wait 20 or 30 years or so until the state education system is properly funded.

In theory, state schooling is fine, but so is home schooling. It is in the actual execution that the systems can fail.

One major drawback of the US system is that teachers are on contracts rather than having tenured positions. Therefore, because their jobs are so uncertain, there is less incentive to have a real emotional investment in their students.

Fortunately, many fine teachers still do their very best but it is not enough to fully counterract all the more lackadaisical ones who don't really love working with children.

I'm not much of a person for theories - practicality will win out for me just about every time.

Well, I think parents have the right to homeschool if the public school system is failing their children. It's better that these children be happy at home than to become disaffected through being bullied whilst in outside schools. People do generally look out for their own families first and within reason, that is how it should be.

Well, I hope you have learnt some compassion since then.