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Had a pretty horrid Easter actually...good thing I don't actually celebrate it because the holiday would have been ruined.  Sad   Fighting, breakups, and the flu...in 24 hours I became sick, single, and searching for a new roommate.  Boo.

Hope others had a better weekend! Smile
Had a great Easter. We went to my parents house - my sister and her family were there too. The best part was my youngest was talking a lot more then normal which is always a real treat. Smile

Luai_lashire Wrote:
I don't celebrate easter.

But I had a nice Ostara.  Smile


I always thought it was Eostre... Are there lots of variations?

Luai_lashire Wrote:
I don't celebrate easter.

But I had a nice Ostara.  Smile


Me too!  Yay!

Did you plant?

GuessWho Wrote:
Congressman Charles Rangel says men and women age 42 (which would make a soldier of me yet at 37), but his agenda is not millions and millions of boots, his point is that we have an Army top heavy of poor people and racial minorities with too few rich kids white kids and politician kids, and George Bush feels free (liberal if I may say so) to have an aggressive foreign policy as long as Jenna and Barbara don't have to be part of it.  Maybe W would cool down the foreign policy if it was possible he could have a daughter come home in a body bag, Rangel reasons, when he suggests the universal draft as a way of respecting everybody's children for the time when war is really unavoidable.


GuessWho, you must be a mindreader! Smile

This guy's comments on universal conscription/draft were reported in the UK.  Was it maybe last year sometime he said this?  I thought he made a very good point!

You're a mindreader because I was going to ask who it was that said this!  Sorry, left that bit out!  Ooops. Smile

Korrigan Wrote:

nyanchan Wrote:

Luai_lashire Wrote:
Yep.  Actually, it started out closest to Ostara, then mutated to Eostre, which is where the Christian name of "Easter" roots from.  Just about everything associated with Easter is absorbed or mutated from the original Pagan holiday, except of course for the whole "rebirth of christ" thing.  Tongue


Actually, thinking about it. Even the rebirth of Jesus could have some grounding in ancient fertility rites. (It brings to mind the "death" and life cycle of the Greek underworld queen, Persephone.) I didn't get this from anywhere -- just from thinking.

As for me, I haven't celebrated Easter for years. (At least since I moved to Japan didn't even know when Easter was while I was there.)


Not that I am disparaging or denying the existence of Jesus, I was not there, so who knows, BUT, the death and rebirth of the God is very common since the beginning of forever.  The God has many names, but the story is basically the same. So yes, you are correct!  


This is an interesting discussion and I don't want to be seen as nitpicking, but Jesus died and was raised. Christians talk about people being reborn, but Christ was resurrected.  There is no single theology or Christology, but various ways of thinking about the whole human/divine issue.

Having got that off my chest, phew, yes, loads of biblical myths and accounts have parallels in the ancient world.  The flood is another one.

Korrigan Wrote:

Marcia Wrote:

This is an interesting discussion and I don't want to be seen as nitpicking, but Jesus died and was raised. Christians talk about people being reborn, but Christ was resurrected.  There is no single theology or Christology, but various ways of thinking about the whole human/divine issue.

Having got that off my chest, phew, yes, loads of biblical myths and accounts have parallels in the ancient world.  The flood is another one.


For me, it is a different way of looking at the same thing.  I do not, per se, believe in Jesus as deity.  A cool guy, but not deity, to me.  I also do not believe in the Bible except to say it is a very interesting piece of literature.  

I am a kitchen witch and pagan all the way.  

But I strongly believe in your right to believe in Jesus and his ressurrection!


"A cool guy" will do for me. Wink

So what's a kitchen witch?  I've not heard of that before.

The Christian faith came from the teachings of a really cool guy named Jesus.  That is all.
The Christian culture adopted from the teachings of a cool guy named Jesus.  That is all.

Luai_lashire Wrote:

TheZach Wrote:
The Christian culture adopted from the teachings of a cool guy named Jesus.  That is all.


Aw, don't you just love those people who can't accept that their religion didn't simply spring forth, fully-formed, from the mouth of a single man, without any sort of influence of any kind whatsoever from any of the rest of the world, and believe that over the course of its two thousand years of existence, it didn't change in any way whatsoever from that original form?
News flash, TheZach:  All religions are influenced by other religions and cultures when they come into contact with them, not to mention individuals with new ideas and- GASP- politics!  

The above is fact; in addition, it's my personal opinion that it's natural and correct for religions to change and adapt to the changes in the world- otherwise their ideas stagnate, rot, and die.


Chrisitan teachings were taught by Jesus Christ, who was born of the virgin marry.  I frankly dont give a toot what you say becuase fact is fact.

I just wanted to wish everyone a happy "Easter 2: The Revenge of Easter".

Traditionally held one week after Easter, this holiday celebrates the day that the Easter Bunny saved us all from Godzilla.

More to the point, it celebrates the fact that all the chocolate is now half price... *grins*

Luai_lashire Wrote:

Korrigan Wrote:
This is a losing argument Luai.  But I totally love listening to you anyway!  Big Grin  You are awesome!


Rolleyes  Heehee, thanks.  I know I'm not going to get anywhere with it, but I just can't not say anything.  It makes me ANGRY.  I don't hold anything against christians, in fact a lot of of my close friends & people I look up to are christian; what I can't stand is people who are clueless about their own religion's history and CHOOSE to be that way.  Sad

Quote:
It is my understanding that the other festivals were resurrected from other pre-Christian religions in the Nineteen-Sixties when a new interest in older faiths was ignited by the flower-power era.

The eight-point wheel, I believe, was created in America in the Nineteen-Seventies.


It's true that a lot of "rediscovered" ancient traditions were actually invented in the modern era- a lot of them before 1960 actually.  Wicca was introduced in 1954, a lot of it based on material from an earlier revival in 1920.  Some of that was valid, based on the few surviving pagan traditions we have, and/or extracted from the adaptations the Christians made to Pagan traditions; some of it was conjecture.  A small fraction of it was entirely invented.
In reference only to the festivals, from wikipedia:

Quote:
Most of the holidays of the Wheel of the Year are named after Pre-Christian Celtic and Pre-Christian Germanic religious festivals. However, a great deal of liberty has usually been taken with the forms and meanings of these festivals, due to the influence of turn of the century romanticism as well as the eclectic elements introduced by Wicca. The similarities between these holidays generally end at the shared names, as Wicca makes no effort to reconstruct these ancient practices.[4] Wiccans observe the festivals of the Wheel of the Year together in a form of universalism not corroborated by any historical continuity.[4]
There is no place in Europe where all eight festivals have been observed as a set, and the complete eightfold Wheel of the Year was unknown prior to modern Wicca.[4] In early forms of Wicca only the cross-quarter days were observed. However, in 1958 the members of Bricket Wood Coven added the solstices and equinoxes to their original calendar, as they desired more frequent celebrations. Their High Priest, Gerald Gardner, was away visiting the Isle of Man at the time, but he did not object when he returned, since they were now more in line with the Neo-druidism of Ross Nichols, a friend of Gardner's and founder of the Order of Bards, Ovates and Druids.[5]
“ No known pre-Christian people celebrated all the eight festivals of the calendar adopted by Wicca. Around the four genuine Gaelic quarter days are now ranged the Midwinter and September feasts of the Anglo-Saxons, the Midsummer celebrations so prominent in folklore and (for symmetry) the vernal equinox, which does not seem to have been commemorated by any ancient northern Europeans.[4]

The quote at the end is a little inaccurate.  We do know that both equinoxes were probably celebrated by the ancients, based largely on the astronomical alignments
towards the Equinoctial sunrises/sets in many stone circles throughout Great Britain.

My personal approach is not to exclude a practice if it isn't "authentic", but merely to accept that it's not ancient and practice it anyway.  Take handfasting, for example.  That's a modern invention, but it's a beautiful practice that I identify strongly with, so I incorporate it into my own practices (my bf and I were handfasted on the holy day of my patron deity, Brigid, on February 2nd).  On the other hand, the concept of four elements aligned with the directions that was introduced by Wicca strikes me as silly, so while I am perfectly happy to let other people do it, I personally do not.  To me, whether or not something is old is not the deciding factor in "authenticity"; it's whether or not it rings true.  And it's perfectly valid to begin new traditions.  My family didn't celebrate any holidays until about four years ago, and we've already established new family traditions based around the holidays we now celebrate.  But I do like to know the facts about the traditions I am celebrating.


Were not ignornant of our own religions history, if you look at the bible its all there.  I have several copys of them.  You on the other hand are trying to skew my religion to make it look like an attack on your own.  Much like a wolf in sheeps clothing.

That might be the really sad thing about Vietnam (not that I was old enough to remember it).  It sullied the concept of the draft so badly that not even when the Twin Towers are knocked down by terrorists can we resurrect the draft.  

A people are only going to tolerate militarism for so long, and then, even when war is necessary, they will not wage it.

And then even when W cries Wolf and there really is a wolf, nobody will listen.
1.  They thought if they didn't, Communism would slowly creep from one country to another like a disease or falling dominos (domino theory)

2.  The Vietnamese wanted the outsiders to get lost.  Yes, they liked socialism, but not conquest.  We ended up in the middle of a civil war (Korea was the same, same story for ever, two hot shots want to be in charge, but big empires want them as client states).  It could happen lots of places.
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