Aspies For Freedom

I'm starting this thread because I'm interested in what others here would categorise as lying.

For me, lying is not simply a question of deliberately saying something which is not true.  It also includes things like exaggerating a story to make it funnier or more entertaining.  I told a friend this recently and she disagreed with me.

I also hate it when people tell my son things which obviously aren't going to happen and he believes them, because...well, why shouldn't he?

Last year a lady in a local shop said he could run the shop while she was on holiday.  My husband went along with this story, despite me asking him not to, and of course the day came when my son got up, dressed and announced he was going to his work...in the shop.  He was so upset when I had to tell him a 5 year old really couldn't run a shop!  As far as he was concerned they had lied to him, and to be honest, I agreed with my son.  I had to tell him that sometimes grown-ups say things they don't mean.  When he asked me "Why?", I didn't have an answer for him, because I don't do it.

Anyway... what does lying mean to you?

Lying, to me, is simply not telling the truth. Bottom line.

And I hate being lied to. I find it more irritating to be lied to than to be told any truth. I'd rather someone be straight forward and brutal, and not play mind games.

Have to agree with autisticinsanity on this one. I think being lied to is the thing I hate most.

I don't get this whole idea that people have about varying degrees of lies.  The idea that some kinds of lies are ok and others aren't.  

You seem to be saying that what counts is whether or not the lie is harmful.  I don't think about the outcome of the lie, I just think of it as a lie.

I'm actually kinda uncomfortable about the whole Santa Claus thing, although I've told my son that it comes from Saint Nicholas.  Last week he started on about the Easter bunny and I just told him that the Easter bunny doesn't exist, it's made up - but he'd still get Easter eggs and told him the story I was told as a child about why we get Easter eggs - symbolising the stone rolled away from the tomb.

Actually, when I think about it now, we were in the changing rooms at the swimming pool when I told him the Easter bunny doesn't exist so probably loads of other children heard me saying it.   As long as they get chocolate I'm sure they don't care!

I almost always tell the truth--if only because I’m very bad at lying; and would find myself consumed with guilt and remorse if I did.

That being said…
Is it still better to tell the truth, even when you know that in doing so you’ll hurt someone’s feelings? Or is it better to spare their feelings by concealing the truth (assuming that truth would not otherwise affect their life).

Sometimes a tactlessly revealed truth can be more hurtful than the worst lie a person can invent.

Also…as a child I believed in father Christmas and the tooth fairy; and while I believed in them…they was ‘real too me’--real for that time--and I enjoyed the lie. For a child to believe in fairies and dragons, heroes and villains is a wonderful thing.

However this is very different from the aspie tendency to take things literally; I do this all the time…and have to conscious correct my thinking to ensure I don’t take things to heart.

D'you really think heroes and villains don't exist in this world?

I never saw the point in trying to convince kids that Santa Claus, et al, existed. Wouldn't it be better to tell him as a story, like any other story? Don't you get more joy out of Christmas presents when you know they're an expression of your parents' love, than some reward for being good?

Yes heroes and villains do exist in the real world; but children can’t always relate to real life heroes. My son would much prefer to be Spiderman than Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi for example.

You don’t have to convince kids that Santa Claus et al exists--you just have to tell them. Most children except the existence of magic and mythical characters without question. Its real to them.
I’d be quite happy to tell them that any other story is real too; stories are as real as you want them too be.

Speaking personally, I’d rather children be children…rather than tiny cynical adults.

They find out soon enough that Santa doesn’t exist; and that Christmas presents are “an expression of your parents' love”. But they also find out that (around the same time) that their parents struggle to pay for the presents--that their parents can’t afford this toy or that toy. And the innocence and fun drains out of Christmas.

Point taken.

Although in a way I think any lie is harmful to the person who tells the lie.  I'd rather get into trouble for something than lie my way out of it.

My mother told me recently that I could never lie, even as a small child.  I rarely even tried, and when I did try I was no good at it!

I'd rather be a bad liar than a good one.

The worst lies are the ones you tell yourself through justifacation and rationalization.

This may surprise some of you given our discussions about religion, but I actually allow my son to attend religious education at school because his belief in Heaven takes away his fear of death, so why not.

I believe in lying for the greater good. I lie at work when I act like I'm happy when I'm not, or when I freindly to people who i dislike. All that's lying but it's neccesary to get by.

S

I'm also sure many married couples who have kids and who are only togetheir for the sake of their kids lie and say they love each other when in reality they'd part in a second if it wasn't for the kids.

Yeah, it happens. Allot. I am a kid of one of them married couples too.

The thing is, it ends up not being for the sake of the kids. It ends in conflict. Huge conflict.

If it was really for the sake of the children, the parents would split up their relationship with each other, and make a better relationship with the kids.

I'm not very good at lying, but it is sometimes warranted.  Basically my dislike for confrontations overpowers any dislike for lies.  You know those awkward situations when you don't really like something someone has made, their new haircut or anything like that... it's easier to lie than to have a confrontation come out of it and hurt their feelings.  For instance I was in a reception job recently that I didn't really like and people would ask me if I was enjoying the job, so I got out of the question by saying it was interesting finding out about blah blah blah...

So yes, the small lies are still lies, but to get through this society, they are sometimes necessary.

I have told my son lies ... ie not tell him certain things which are infact the truth of the matter in order to protect him ... or to make things sound better than they are at times... and to friends in order not to hurt them at times... and certain things like father christmas, easter bunny, tooth fairy, although these are  a pain in the neck really.. he asked so many questions about the logistics of such things that it becomes really difficult to keep up!

I feel that lying is when you are saying or doing something that would hurt someone else’s feelings.   The truth often hurts less than the lies.

Telling children about Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy is not hurting their feelings as it is part of childhood memories and experiences.   But telling a child something that they are led to believe is true and then not carry it though as Marcia’s son experienced is not fair on the child as they would become upset and feel let down.

I think it was really cruel of this lady to lie to your son like that. If not cruel, then thoughtless. I had a somewhat similar thing happen when I was about 10, only it was to do with minding a stall at a fete. Dad said I could help on the stall and then when I showed up, the ladies said they didn't want any help.

Mum was very angry about it (not so much at dad but at the ladies) and then I wouldn't help with anything else similar later on because I didn't believe they needed assistance.

Kids have this tendency to take statements very literally, and adults need to realise this and really think about what they say.