Aspies For Freedom

I think most people would be happy to oblige if you asked them to summarise their posts in a particular thread.

I don't really think it's realistic to ask others to limit all of their posts, though.

I write long posts because I take my time over what I respond to and want to get my point across. I have no problem with people who skip over them; thats their choice, as it is my choice to write a lot.

oh dear, I think he might be implying the "Island" discussions that are happening....

sorry about the long posts there...but we really cant help it.

As far as I know it is in every forum like this and this is just your bad luck.

I also have no issue with summarising my posts if I'm one of those people referred to, so long as I'm asked to (I'd find it arrogant of me to automatically do it everytime). I wouldn't say I'm intellectually gifted either. I'm very good at some things and I suck at other things - on an intellectual level. My understanding of mathematics is at a high school level. If I'm honest, I envy people who have extremely good mathematic skills. At school I had no interest in maths or science so I never progressed in it; I always preferred English/History/Modern Studies (i.e. a form of school sociology). Oddly enough I took to computing like a fish to water, including programming. Maybe I just find technology comforting.

You probably know by now that I'm pretty blunt about what I consider to be issues, so hopefully this will come across as information, rather than just self-esteem building.

Your posts are quite intelligent and insightful, and so I perceive you as intelligent. Of course, you are the better judge of your own skills, so the final assessment of your abilities lies in your hands - but often you seem to be asking a question about your intelligence rather than choosing an answer, and when it seems like it's still in doubt, I offer the above opinion.

This isn't dismissing the above issues you've mentioned, so I'll try to address them, as far my understanding of your reasons goes.

For starters, bad short term memory isn't a deal-breaker, so to speak - it's a limitation you'll have to find a way to work around. This could involve writing down instructions, setting alarms, etc.

With many of the other things, what I often see limiting you is a fear of taking risks. All I can say to this is simply trust yourself - not in the cheesy "believe in yourself and you can achieve anything" kind of way, but in the "I'm the best source of information about myself I've got, so I may as well just go for it" kind of way.

What this means is that if you think you have a talent for drawing, then draw, rather than asking all sorts of questions about perspective, speed, etc, before you start. Those things might be useful if you have specific project goals later on, but for now, the best idea is to create for the sake of creating.

Ditto with choices about your life - if you want to try online jobs, etc, then just apply for them - don't worry if your parents or other family think it's a good idea. You're the one who'll be doing the job, after all.

In more general terms, self-understanding is also something you'll have to settle on yourself. I often notice you looking for new diagnoses or neurological information to explain every single trait you possess - and it's just not needed. If you have a particular trait, then acknowledge it as fact, and move on - labels are only as helpful as they are useful, after all.

So, there it be - I consider you to be very intelligent, and I am also very critical of you, so there's no rose-tinting involved at all.

I would also just like to add that intelligence isn't just limited to academic performance. Plenty of people are actually very intelligent but have poor performance when in the grading field i.e. examinations, tests etc. Its almost like being ill, but your symptoms lessen in the waiting room.

Look at logicalconclusion, who prided himself upon his intellectual skills, but managed to take a giant turd on himself within a fortnight or so of his ban being lifted here.

Some individuals who have a high IQ do not apply it with the intelligence that their academic achievement would insinuate. Incidentally I believe enviroment has a strong impact on academic/intellectual development. I went to awful schools, where people often left without qualifications, and to go onto university was pretty much non-existant. I think I'm one of 5 people from my immediate high school classes to enter into higher education in an academic sense (plenty of girls did hairdressing etc). And I did that a couple of years later, although that was for personal reasons, nothing to do with my academic abilities. I saw plenty of kids that could have went onto further things. But the schools were underfunded, and didn't apply the funding they did have correctly. School was very much a place that you had to attend and no-one expected to get anything out of it. As someone extremely passionate about education, I find that disappointing.

Another thing I've learned from the education system is that very often it is a case of *** teacher = *** student. A bad teacher can make a student who is not academically... 'switched on' (be it because they have no interest in the benefits of their own education, or because they have underlying issues there) at best apathetic about learning, and at worst, have absolutely no faith in their capabilities in the classroom, the workplace and the home. A good teacher can make a lot of difference to someone's development. That student may never have the ability to gain a Phd, but they will have a sense of self-belief that they are not completely thick and useless. Teachers can be pretty good at crushing those who need the most patience and reassurance.

I spent my time in the school education system consistently being told that I was 'above average'/'displays extreme intelligence' etc etc. When I got bullied to the point I couldn't attend certain classes, the school paid for me to have a private tutor. Sound good? Ha... kids that weren't top of the class were never afforded that privilege. I saw similar cases drop out of school at 15 and fall by the wayside. My school paid to keep me because I looked good for their statistics. Had I been a flunk, I would have been another statistic of my hometown. And upon reflection, was it fair that school funding was spent on one student, who could have easily been enrolled on a similar college programme that was at my level of academic performance (I did get there but only after I fought with teachers and generally made such a nuisance of myself they were happy to release me)? I didn't require the private tuition in terms of my ability. I needed it because I was getting beaten up by two little bitches on a daily basis.

My point is that some teachers really know how to balls up, and how the league tables are sometimes more important to them than the education of their students.

I don't know what your experience of the education system is, Batman, but judging from your last post here it seems to me that it was not an altogether pleasant one. As far as not utilising the support services available to you, then I would say that is a bad idea for anyone. I would consider myself to be intelligent but I also recognise my weaknesses and freely take the help that is on offer to me. My executive functioning is crap and I have poor concentration levels in subjects I have no interest in. Support services are not a question of being intelligent or not - it is about honing your strengths and recognising your weaknesses. From the way you write here, I would not see any issues with your ability to comprehend and critically evaluate texts - therefore I would not see any problem with your essay writing skills, for example. If your ability to construct an essay is weak, then it is not shameful or unintelligent to get advice on how to construct it effectively. Even I still ask for help/feedback with essays at university - plenty of students do.

People who go through the education system pretending that they've never asked for a bit of help or advice from someone are either lying or have never academically challenged themselves. I got told that in first year, when I was really cocky, and I rubbished it. Trust me, it is true. Only some people sex it up and call criticism 'feedback' and call asking for opinions on essay ideas 'brainstorming/mindshowering'

Nope, there's not - just like there's no reliable way to be officially diagnosed. At some point, you just have to choose the neurotype that makes sense to you, and go with it. This is what I mean about trusting yourself.

And don't worry too much about what other people think of self-diagnosis - you use the tools you have access to, and the aspie label is a helpful one, if you believe it's accurate. Not worrying about what these people think is also a part of trusting yourself.

That's not really what I was talking about, though - you often try to explain your abilities and behaviour in medical terms. In the end, though, the things you say about yourself are yours - it doesn't matter how they fit into someone elses description of a neurotype.

Academic skills have almost nothing to do with intelligence - or more to the point, they usually only test for the skill of memorising what are essentially pointless facts.

For example, I consider myself to be quite intelligent, and I also did badly in high school.

I call you intelligent based on your often insightful posts. This is based on actual quantitative observation, and nothing to do with esteem building.

If you refer to a trait about yourself, call it exactly what it is. If you did badly in high school, it is because you have difficulties in memorising textbook facts. Intelligence is a much broader concept, and I consider memorising to be a very minor talent within this broad concept.

You're creative, you see things outside the box, and you reach interesting conclusions. These things are some of the mainstays of intelligence, as far as I'm concerned.

Yep, pretty much all of it. I can definitely see how short-term memory would effect things.

I mean that if you have a problem doing a particular type of task, like academic work, then you only need to say that you have trouble with academic work - it doesn't mean that you're unintelligent in the general sense.

As far as the medical term thing goes, sometimes you try to work yourself out via medical terms - like talking about spacial recognition abilities when you're mentioning not having learned how to do perspective drawing. Most of the terms don't really apply - for example, I think the main reason you don't know how to do perspective drawing is that you haven't done the years of practice it often takes to do perspective drawing well.

All I meant is that there's a possibility of error with both methods - with self-diagnosis, the error is due to not understanding what aspergers is, and with official diagnosis, the error is with not understanding who the person is. And occasionally also not understanding what aspergers is on top of that.

Generally, if proper care is taken, I think both methods work.

Being who I am would mean accepting that I am very subpar in a lot of cognitive skills that middle-class, suburbanite society expects of me.  And thusly acknowledging that I have an extraordinary lack of intelligence, since the society you live in--and the people around you--are the ones who set the standards.  I am not prepared to accept this about myself and live my life as someone who identifies as cognitively disabled and "slow."  However, scarily enough, the status of "mentally-challenged lemon" may be fact as I have provided more than enough evidence for it both in life, and in my writings about my life on AFF.

For me to flower, I'd have to accept these things.  Now you see why I do not accept them.

and yet, the grammar, composition and spelling of that post were damn nigh perfect, and the point was put across very eloquently?

why batman, I do think you undervalue yourself somewhat.

Despite the superficial grammar and spelling (who needs it anymore, now with spell check, anyway?!) skills, my reading rate and ability to comprehend what I read (which is, essentially, looking for meaning) is well below the average person.  You ought to know that people with AS have a jagged set of skills; mine includes good grammar/spelling and some composition skills, but very slow reading, very slow processing speed, and very poor reading comprehension.

Do not be deceived by what you see from me on AFF.  After all, you're not the one who was sitting in class at a local community college, unable to keep up with the pace or remember anything that was discussed in class properly.  The list of patheticness goes on.

I have a very poor audio memory. I have trouble remembering what was said to me five minutes ago.
can you type?
do you learn better kinaesthetically or visually?

To be completely honest, Batman, I think you have a major issue with self esteem.

Oh, I always get the "you can always fall back on being righteous and a good citizen" in absence of any real ability.  I don't believe in that, sorry.  Here's why:

I was raised in affluent suburbs and taught that you need to go to college and do "as well as the peers in your age group" to have worth.  That is how my father raised me.  I have always been compared to other people.  I don't know any other way.