Aspies For Freedom

I'm not a fast reader, not by a long shot.  I have some kind of trouble with information processing, in the first place, and that screws me up here.  And also attention deficit of some strong caliber.

So I'd like to ask what is behind this current monopoly of 2-3 page long posts, going on now.  Thankfully, it seems this trend comes and goes on AFF.  But worse than that, there's a lot of intellectuality behind many of these posts and no Cliff's Notes in sight.

Have you folks ever considered that some people on AFF are not on your intellectual wavelength?  Can't you make things user-friendly for those who do not have your gifts?

It goes back to the Pecking-Order thread.  I've mentioned this many times before that, as well.  I notice some users on here (will not name them) have intellectual credibility, and I do not.  I imagine there may be others here like me, who feel the same way.

I don't feel it is necessary to divide discussion according to intelligence level, and yet--sadly--this appears to be how matters are naturally carried out.  Evidence?  Well, there are other members on AFF who are open about not being gifted.  Just like me, I do not often see these specific members in long, complex, political-minded discussions...

What can we do to change this and make the playing field more even?

I don't think it is fair to ask people to stop discussing certain topics because other members don't like them/aren't interested in them. Unless the thread devolves into some kind of flame-war (which admittedly seems to happen quite often here), I think people should be able to discuss whatever subject they want in whatever manner they want. As mentioned above, most people would probably be happy to summarize/simplify their posts if you are interested in the topic and politely ask them to do so, but I don't think it is right to expect someone to automatically translate all of their posts into a style that is not their own.

You don't have to read or understand what is going on here at all times. Hell, I only participate in about 10-15% of the threads on this site because with most of them, I don't have anything useful to add or I am just plain uninterested in the subject. There are many threads I don't even bother to read at all.

I don't follow really long and involved philosophical messages not because I'm unintelligent but because it just gets a bit much to concentrate for so long. It would be nice to have really long posts summarised but some people do prefer to write a lot about their interests. I generally prefer to put things in fairly plain English and don't follw a lot of highly technical language.

Batman, you're not unintelligent. Intelligence involves knowing what to put in and what to leave out. Your comments are frequently perceptive and well stated so please don't worry so much.

You're right, and in hindsight, I feel it was quite brash of me to say what I said.  As you know, I sometimes speak more from frustration than from logic...

With the concentration thing, you hit the nail on the head.  Maintaining concentration on something long and detailed, that I don't ordinarily have interest in, is really hard for me... like manual labor or something.  I can't often do it.  I marvel at the ability of others who can do this without hardly making any effort.

This comes down to an ancient argument:  Where to draw the line between harsh reality (e.g. by comparing yourself to other people) and teaching oneself to believe things that are beneficial to your confidence and self-esteem, but aren't really true.

I haven't been following those discussions anyway, so don't let my "complaint" here impinge on that...

But it is true that you make good comments and are smart. I'm not just saying it to be nice.

I'm afraid to say that if you don't have cognitive flexibility, and you don't have 1/10th the executive functioning of an average person, and you can't use anything in your short term memory for more than 20 seconds, and you can't handle generic courses at a local Community College... no, you cannot be considered smart.  How do you argue with this kind of logic?

Why delude me just to help me build confidence?  This is a criticism to everyone on the site who says I'm smart when I ask for an opinion on the matter.  I have been nothing but honest about myself.  Here, more honesty:  I took an extra year of high school because I got less than 12% for the year on a class some sophomores (2 grades below me) were taking, and therefore graduated high school at age 19.  From there, I took a year off and went to community college at 21, and rapidly dropped out of every class because I was not able to do the work.  I rejected the idea that I should utilize the "support services freely available" heavily--to get through--because no smart person would need to use those services.  I wasn't going to do work that a normal person should not need to do, because it is not fair for me to always work from behind.  It's just not fair to me.

Really, I've explained my failures with honesty, and if people still want to tell me I'm smart here, so I can gain self-esteem, you're helping me tune my "rose-tinted glasses" even more.  Why not provide the truth when it is asked for?

You know my style is to "cut to the core" and just come out and reveal things for what they are.  I don't understand why so many Aspies like to dress things up, just so they can help me increase the confidence that I am sorely, sorely lacking.

You are mistaken; normal people do use those services. Only the minority of people who are geniuses in every subject they take don't need to use them to get halfway decent grades, and I've only met a few people like that. Why didn't you even try them?

Last year when I was at uni, I was horrible at my chemistry classes. I couldn't understand or remember any of the formulas, and even though I met with a tutor three times a week to study chemistry, I still ended up failing the classes. At least I tried.

And just because I failed those classes doesn't mean I was going to give up. I know I have a lot to offer, even if I can't do chemistry, so why would I ever just give up on myself and wallow in a pool of my own failure? Instead, I've started retaking chemistry classes at a local community college, and I'm actually learning something because the classes are smaller and I can ask the professor to explain things if necessary (and it has been necessary). When I finish the chemistry, math, and whatever classes I think I should take at this college, I'm going to transfer back to the university.

When you have a goal you're trying to accomplish (such as getting a college degree), don't just give up when something sets you back. And don't say you're too good to seek help when necessay, because everyone needs help with something at some point in their lives, and to say that you don't is basically just implying you're better than everyone else.

Look at this way... Say you're driving back home from running errands or whatever, and on the way back you see that the road you were going to take is closed for construction. Do you just pull over to the side and sit there forever just feeling sorry for yourself because you can't take that road home? No, you go and take another road home.

It's the same sort of situation I faced when I was at university... I didn't let those obstacles stop me from trying to acheive my goal. I just had to find another way to do it, because the way I was doing it before obviously wasn't working. This is what you need to do as well - take some time to think about what you want to be doing in 10 or 20 years. I don't know what that could be, but I'm pretty sure it's not still living at home.

Once you've figured out you're long-term goal in life, then you can start trying to pursue it, and then don't stop trying till you've accomplished what you wanted.

Thanks to all the responses so far, right now I can't get my head around which stuff I should reply to, although I have the feeling that I do want to reply to one or more of them.  Just can't think of what to say...  might take some time before i get there.

Actually, his bark was far worse than his bite. It is very unfortunate that he got stuck on certain subjects because when he was on other subjects he could speak sense.

Well, okay, a big reason I do this stuff is I don't have official clarification.  And you have those folks on AFF, and elsewhere, who think self-diagnosis doesn't mean anything, and one is not qualified to do it.  So I mean--asking you specifically, EZ--is there a reliable way to self diagnose yourself with AS?

I'm glad you feel that way, of course.  However, in this thread, and many others, I did provide solid proof of being undeniably subpar in my academic career, as compared to my peers (those in my age bracket who went to school with me.)  There has to be standards and averages, and I fell short of them in high school.  Broadly speaking, once I got to 10th and moreso, 11th grade, I was far behind in several cognitive skills that were in high demand at those grade levels.  We are not talking honors classes--I was taking grade level "regular" courses, and what's worse, I was generally a year older than most students.  And still, I was behind.

Being "behind the curve" does not equate to intelligence, unfortunately.  I don't know why you--and others--aren't acknowledging this.

And yes I know you folks don't know me in real life and haven't seen what I can do, but you have to take my words at face value.  I'm an honest person.  I wouldn't lie about my deficits.  Therefore, when I say it takes me 6 or more months to read a 300 page novel, I mean it.  When I say I have several learning difficulties and severe concentration problems (esp. auditory-wise) that make classroom learning impossible, and then when I get home to do it myself with the textbook, I can't pay attention to the material or read properly, I mean it.  When I say I have a deficiency in reading comprehension (fiction especially), I mean it.

To me this is a portrait of subpar intelligence.  For instance, when I was a year older than most students and in unweighted, regular classes, I was increasingly behind the skill set needed with each passing grade.  I don't see how you can argue against "subpar cognition" in my case.

Other skills that might come in handy:  mechanical, spatial, athletic, musical, etc.  And I don't have them.

A couple things here, esp. in the bolded print, are very familiar to me.  It's interesting to note that some Aspies who have a much better set of cognitive skills than I do, still share some things in common.  It almost doesn't make sense to me.

I hadn't thought of it or quite seen it that way before.  Really, if you "strip it all down" to the core, much of academics relies on one's ability to memorize facts?  I wonder where poor short term memory plays into that...

I'm not sure I see what you mean in the bolded print.  Also the other comment about my tendency to explain my abilities and behavior in medical terms...  I'm not sure I see what you're trying to say with this.  Perhaps the tendency for me to do this is habit, and I can't realize I'm doing it, or something.  I'd like further clarification...

Fair enough, that makes sense...  I'll keep it in mind.