Aspies For Freedom - John McCain is an idiot

Just want to touch on the vegetarian element here.

As much as going vegetarian is admirable - if we don't eat meat, there are animals that will over run us because we aren't culling them. And such an over run would be bad for the flora - and therefore bad for the environment.

Just throwing that out there.

Chimera Wrote:

Timelord Wrote:

Just want to touch on the vegetarian element here.

As much as going vegetarian is admirable - if we don't eat meat, there are animals that will over run us because we aren't culling them. And such an over run would be bad for the flora - and therefore bad for the environment.

Just throwing that out there.

stop breeding them and the issue you broach would be short-lived.

Which would require genocide to achieve. Sorry, but as long as they are there they will breed, and if you don't control that by culling.....

Chimera Wrote:

Timelord Wrote:

Chimera Wrote:

Timelord Wrote:

Just want to touch on the vegetarian element here.

As much as going vegetarian is admirable - if we don't eat meat, there are animals that will over run us because we aren't culling them. And such an over run would be bad for the flora - and therefore bad for the environment.

Just throwing that out there.

stop breeding them and the issue you broach would be short-lived.

Which would require genocide to achieve. Sorry, but as long as they are there they will breed, and if you don't control that by culling.....

okay - breed them to kill them in inhumane ways in order for us to eat their flesh....its worse than genocide. Really pretty gross.

Sorry - I don't respect that line of extremism. There is NOTHING worse than genocide.

Chimera Wrote:

it IS genocide.

it IS torture

it IS disgusting

to think it is not genocide is speciism. Humans kill
Jews
gays
diabled people
blacks
animals

anyone they can convince themselves is less than they are. apparently the morjority of people have convinced themselves that they are better and more worthy than other living creatures.

i don't buy into THAT for anything

i dare you listen to meet your dinner:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWmAJlwLnQI

stop breeding them and the issue you broach would be short-lived.

Which would require genocide to achieve. Sorry, but as long as they are there they will breed, and if you don't control that by culling.....
[/quote]

okay - breed them to kill them in inhumane ways in order for us to eat their flesh....its worse than genocide.  Really pretty gross.
[/quote]

Sorry - I don't respect that line of extremism. There is NOTHING worse than genocide.
[/quote]

it IS genocide

it IS torture

it IS disgusting

to think it is not is specism.  it is that kind of thinking that allows people to kill
jews
blacks
disabled
gays
serbs or bosnians
tutis or hutus

its people who think they have more of a right to be on earth than others

I dare you to meet your dinner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWmAJlwLnQI

this is not an isolate incident.  this happens every day. all over the US
just for you

tonight, NPR had a broadcast on the transport of horses from spain to itally

disgusting

I had hoped it was better other other places

just cut out one meat meal a week and you will do a world of good
[/quote]

It is NOT genocide - for one very simple reason. The species are NOT disappearing. Incidentally I am talking about domestic animals (not whales for example).

I'm sorry - but this whole thing reads "extremism". You won't get any supporters for vegatarianism with the sorts of arguments you are putting forward.

Oh yike what a mess! Can a mod fix that up for me? I wish there was an edit button!!

Celebrindal Wrote:

This whole world is outta wack ... when will all this godforsaken mess end??

When us Aspies utter the immortal words......

WE'RE TAKING OVER!!!

Tongue Tongue Tongue

From what I understand she doesn't support the bad side of Autism Speaks - only the good side (the research). I have a feeling that if she gets into the Whitehouse she'll make sure the donations that go to Autism Speaks are used for the RIGHT sort of research.

Zakkie, if the genetic research finds the root of the Autistic Spectrum it will destroy the curebie movement. I don't see how that can be a bad thing to be honest. Although I take your point about how that research would be used - but having said that which political party in the US will approve of DNA fiddling?

EvilZakkie Wrote:

Timelord Wrote:

Zakkie, if the genetic research finds the root of the Autistic Spectrum it will destroy the curebie movement. I don't see how that can be a bad thing to be honest.

I know the mercury people are pretty loud and obnoxious, but the majority of curebies still believe that autism is genetic - so the curebie movement will still go on.

Huh? That doesn't make sense. If they believe Autism is genetic the cure argument is dead automatically.

EvilZakkie Wrote:

Autistic people, however, will be severely decimated by pre-natal testing.

That point I never argued with - it's why whilst I support the research the focus has to be AWAY from that aim, and towards the destruction of the curebie movement because they are the biggest threat to the true understanding of the Spectrum.

EvilZakkie Wrote:

I can understand that it is offensive to be told your personality is due to mercury poisoning - but it's far better for autistic people to be offended than wiped out.

Personally I'd prefer it if both options were completely eliminated - because when certainly I get offended I go right off. And I'm not the only Aspie who does it (I've seen it happen on this forum and on other locations as well). And I hate it as well because no one sees the provocation.

EvilZakkie Wrote:

Timelord Wrote:

Although I take your point about how that research would be used - but having said that which political party in the US will approve of DNA fiddling?

I'm not so worried about that side of things - I think the cure is a pipe dream. It's pre-natal testing that concerns me - and none of the parties have a problem with that.

I think that's because there hasn't been the reaction there should be to what's been happening with Downs Syndrome babies. It about time we started putting our foot down about that - and I think the moderate opponents to abortion in general should be the people to talk to about that (not the extremists!).

EvilZakkie Wrote:

Of the three, as far as autistic rights go, Obama has the best policies, as he talks about funding support services. Granted, he still believes in a cure, but at least by emphasising support services, funding to genetic research will be cut.

I'm pretty sure Hilary will take the same line if she gets the nomination because the party will put her under pressure to do so - especially if she ends up running with Obama as her running mate.

EvilZakkie Wrote:

Timelord Wrote:

EvilZakkie Wrote:

Timelord Wrote:

Zakkie, if the genetic research finds the root of the Autistic Spectrum it will destroy the curebie movement. I don't see how that can be a bad thing to be honest.

I know the mercury people are pretty loud and obnoxious, but the majority of curebies still believe that autism is genetic - so the curebie movement will still go on.

Huh? That doesn't make sense. If they believe Autism is genetic the cure argument is dead automatically.

You'd think so, but no. Keep in mind that Autism Speaks are the biggest curebie organisation around, and they still believe it's genetic.

The mercurites and their ilk are annoying, and occasionally damaging - but they're not the biggest threat by any means.

Autism Speaks is a bad example, because any curebie thinking doesn't eminate from them (at the core I mean). It comes from CAN! Who to my knowledge have never supported the genetic root. To be honest, I disagree - the mercury militia are the biggest threat because they are the ones promoting ASD's as a disease. Think of it as us being put over as lepers and you'll get the idea.

Timelord Wrote:

EvilZakkie Wrote:

Autistic people, however, will be severely decimated by pre-natal testing.

That point I never argued with - it's why whilst I support the research the focus has to be AWAY from that aim, and towards the destruction of the curebie movement because they are the biggest threat to the true understanding of the Spectrum.

Unfortunately, it's the same research - once they've got the genetic causes of autism, they don't have to do much more to get to a pre-natal test.
[/quote]

What if (and this is likely in my opinion) the genetic code can't be detected before birth? If the theory I presently hold to is right - it's down to a sensory overload early in life with the genetic code present - even knowing the code isn't a guarentee of an ASD. About the only thing you could guarentee is carraige of the gene, but you get an NT kid. I'm certain this isn't as simple as Downs Syndrome (and the pre natal testing there should be banned anyway).

EvilZakkie Wrote:

Timelord Wrote:

EvilZakkie Wrote:

You'd think so, but no. Keep in mind that Autism Speaks are the biggest curebie organisation around, and they still believe it's genetic.

The mercurites and their ilk are annoying, and occasionally damaging - but they're not the biggest threat by any means.

Autism Speaks is a bad example, because any curebie thinking doesn't eminate from them (at the core I mean). It comes from CAN! Who to my knowledge have never supported the genetic root. To be honest, I disagree - the mercury militia are the biggest threat because they are the ones promoting ASD's as a disease. Think of it as us being put over as lepers and you'll get the idea.

Mission statement from their website:

We are dedicated to funding global biomedical research into the causes, prevention, treatments, and cure for autism; to raising public awareness about autism and its effects on individuals, families, and society; and to bringing hope to all who deal with the hardships of this disorder. We are committed to raising the funds necessary to support these goals.

This was their mission statement long before CAN ever entered the scene, and is the reason the two organisations merged so easily.

That's not what I remember of the site pre merger, Zakkie. The "cure" part wasn't there. The rest was.

EvilZakkie Wrote:

We're all pretty aware what the "raising public awareness" bit refers to (if not, see the "Autism Everyday" video). Everything else is pure curebie.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on that re the genetics side of it - but yes, the video doesn't help. I haven't seen it and I don't want to, but if I'm right about the CAN! influence it will concentrate on LFA and paint the whole Spectrum like that (Generation Rescue do the same thing). The counter to that is to focus on us Aspies and the HFA's who aren't Rain Man clones per se - and what we contribute to society and the video is quickly designated to the rubbish bin as inaccurate.

EvilZakkie Wrote:

Timelord Wrote:

What if (and this is likely in my opinion) the genetic code can't be detected before birth? If the theory I presently hold to is right - it's down to a sensory overload early in life with the genetic code present - even knowing the code isn't a guarentee of an ASD. About the only thing you could guarentee is carraige of the gene, but you get an NT kid. I'm certain this isn't as simple as Downs Syndrome (and the pre natal testing there should be banned anyway).

Entirely possible, but not worth the risk unless you know for sure. It's also possible that the genetics will be too complex for a pre-natal test.

But the consequences for being wrong about this are simply too great. Besides which, if Downs Syndrome is anything to go by, medical authorities are quite happy to use the "maybe=definitely" method of pre-natal testing.

Then - as I said - ban pre-natal testing. Then we're safe.

Then, Pakrat, we publicise it and the media will bury the culprit in sheer humiliation while the authorities cart the idiot off to jail.

tenaciouscj Wrote:

When people are scared enough, they can do amazingly unintelligent things.

And that is why the mercury militia get so many willing followers!

morning_after Wrote:

why do you all think people are so afraid of raising an autistic child?

Because it's a 24/7 job. Some just aren't prepared to do it. That's why support systems are needed.

morning_after Wrote:

But raising any child is a 24/7 job. Why are autistic children getting picked on like that?

Actually no, that's not true. With an NT child, the 24/7 only applies until school starts - if that if you can afford child care. With an autistic child it's right the way through childhood, and child care is not an option. And with an NT child you can get just a regular babysitter. No chance of that with an Autistic child.