Aspies For Freedom

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Logical paradox Wrote:
Why is it so necessary constantly say that famous people may have had AS? Do we have to prove ourselves to be supergeniuses to find acceptance? Isn't neurodiversity for it's own sake enough?


Yeah, it's a bit weird especially as so many of the AS ones are long dead!  

But I think there are people in every "community" who like to point to someone well known and say, " One of us, you know", with a wee nod and a wink!  Only wealthy and successful ones right enough, they're quick enough to disown the mad and the bad!

Logical paradox Wrote:
Why is it so necessary constantly say that famous people may have had AS? Do we have to prove ourselves to be supergeniuses to find acceptance? Isn't neurodiversity for it's own sake enough?


I wonder similarly when an actor or actress decides to share their political designation.  It doesn't matter what they think, it's just more fame/attention to be labeled as something.  You stand out more.

It annoys me when you watch a TV show and one of your friends says "oh that [insert non-descript celebrity name] is totally gay" with an air of smugness as if to say "yup... one of us. That automatically makes them a better human being and worthwhile of attention." Big deal; they pee, I pee. Do I feel a kinship with all the people in the world who pee? No.

However I can understand why people do it with the spectrum right now - it is a moral panic for people, with misconceptions and a lack of any 'role model' network. Ultimately I think many minorities look to successful individuals in the media to feel a little more... normalised? Not the best choice of word but the closest I can think of right now. When I was first dealing with being gay everything gay was fascinating, cool, and 'wow' to me. I stood up for gay celebrities even though I had no interest in their artistry (I even made my friend come with me to a Mel C concert :hangs head in shame: ) because... it was just what you do. I'm 14/15, I want to fit in somewhere... oh wow, look at her... she's like me and people like her... yadda yadda.

You know when you get older that it really doesn't matter jacksh*t; the amount of times I've wanted to remove my brain nasally with a rusty screwdriver when someone mentions Angelina f*cking Jolie to me or some other relevant piece of gay pop culture... But I see girls - sorry, women - my age still doing it, and to me, its lame. Christ - I went with my girlfriend to a Pink concert and there were lesbians there in their 40s trying to act 19 again. You see people living their lives through media projections in most minority groups I think. And we're all a minority on some level - even look at blonde girls who think that because they're blonde they need to wear pink and be a proper girly girl, and the only time they'll be seen in a pair of (skinny) jeans they'll have their f-me pumps on and oversized bag thats a replica of that one that Nicole Richie had in that magazine... Insecurity makes you kinda want to belong to something, even if you refuse to acknowledge it. No-one wants to be completely alone and isolated for their lifespan.

But when you're trying to ascertain who you are and where you are in the world, I can understand why clinging to 'well just look at that Bill Gates man' works for some. Just as some Aspies grow out of that phase, some don't; some take reassurance in it. I think as the Aspie equality movement grows, you'll see it split in the usual camps that it inevitably does - the ones who are like "coo-eeeeee Johnny Depp" and the ones who want to claw their eyes out and say "OMG I don't care - I am not just a label".
Here's another thought:

Why does it bother you what other people think in the first place?  Do they really matter that much?  Why allow them to have a hold over you when there's nothing you can do to stop all their opinions?

Simen Wrote:
Zachrates, it's both a fundamental part of human nature, and a necessity. Not only are we humans wired in such a way that we can't help but think about what other people think about us, but what other people think about us can have profound influence on how our lives turn out. How the interviewer feels about you determines whether you get the job, what your neighbors or class mates or the random dude you met at the supermarket or the old woman on a bench in the park feels about you determines who you'll end up being friends with. How politicians and others with influence on public policy feel about people like you determines how society will treat you to a high degree.

I understand very well that we shouldn't be afraid to be someone for fear that others will find out we're not someone else; I guess that's what you mean, but the simplistic "why do you care what others think of you?" glosses over the influence these people's opinions will have on your life.


While this may be true for most people, maybe I'm different then.  A while ago, I decided that I will not let other's opinions sway me from my will.  I refuse to change who I am simply because someone may or may not be acceptant of me.  Whatever the consequences or outcome might be, at least I remain true to myself.

Basically the choice is always yours.  My decision is fairly brash, I have lost 3 jobs so far because I refuse to lie or suck up to anyone.  I will never lie for any reason, if it can be helped.  But thats just how I feel, it may not be for everyone, but there will always be those who disagree with you, or hate you, even nonsensically.  Letting it get to you will not solve anything, right? ^_^.
(Afterthought): Also, it's a fundamental human ability to change one's opinion and go against instinct.  Thats why men don't go around impregnating a bazillion women or killing people they don't like (Well most of them, and they are capable of NOT doing those things). Or when I took San Soo, how I could get myself out of the instinct to back away from a punch, and change it instead to step in.

As for EvilZakkie...

This sounds like conspiracy theory to me.  Never in the history of the world has anyone been able to legally, and with support (Minus actual wars) kill or force rehabilitation on the unwilling.  Eugenic Genocide is a fairly extreme, and highly unlikely outcome.  There's a reason politics have never swayed one way or the other for good, there's a reason that even though homosexuality is different, it has never been forcibly "cured" etc.

In order for this genocide to occur, you would have to assume that suddenly any ND organizations would suddenly vanish, to not defend your rights, and in addition to any political sphere's that might disagree.

I'd also like to point out that sometimes positive movement causes negative reaction too.  Look at gay pride parades.  I respect anyone's sexual disposition, however, they commit crimes in these parades, indecent exposure being the biggest.  However, no one brings them to court, because they're gay.  They get special treatment because of that, which makes me fairly annoyed, and un-supportive of their cause.  I have a gay friend who thinks the same actually lol.

Anyway, I sort of rambled on, long story short, what matters in this world is what is important to you.  If other's opinions matter to you, it's because you want them too.  You could get along just fine not caring about any of it, and in fact, if you could achieve this, you'd be a much happier person.

Logical paradox Wrote:
The publicity though is negative. Remember the trouble with Encyclopedia Dramatica? While they were of course exaggerating, the parody represents the NT view on autistic culture; a bunch of whinny brats out to prove how smart they are. NTs will think of us this way if we keep relaying on the "so and so had AS argument".


Exactly right.

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I have lived through enough *** to take this mantra as anything but empty words. I'm not willing to let me life turn to crap just because it's more of my "true" self. The true me is not a self-destructive, depressed good-for-nothing. If it were, I wouldn't want to be me.


Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as annoyed, I'm just saying the choice is always there, that was my main point.  Empty words for you have filled my life with purpose and satisfaction.  I never meant to imply this is how it is, seriously, it's just my opinion.

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This is bullshit. If you're lucky, it may be that it works out for you, but I can tell you, being oblivious to what other people think of you has done nothing but bring me trouble. The reason I care what other people think about me is because of very real, pragmatic knowledge, accumulated through experience: I don't want a crappy life and I don't want to die lonely and friendless.

Which is to say, it's just rude to suggest that everyone who cares what other thinks of them does it because they want to. That ignores the very real issue that many people aren't aligned with society and get very real troubles for it. Think of gay people, especially some decades ago. Think of black people, also still only decades ago. And think of everyone else who doesn't fit right into the conformist stereotype. Crap comes the way of the oblivious.


Works out for me?  Did I not state above I lost 3 jobs?  It works out because being myself > Any job.  It doesn't mean I'll be successful.  And by your own words, in your last sentence, first paragraph, you just proved me right.  Their opinions matter because you want them too.  You say you have a crappy friendless life without caring, therefore it is your decision to care.

I'm sorry, but I really don't see how pointing out the obvious is rude.  In my eyes, I'm not really insulting someone for trying to tell them that it shouldn't matter what others think o_O.  I never stated to be oblivious, or do nothing.  Obviously you have rights and should stand up for them.  But you can't give me one reason why letting other's opinions get to you helps, or makes things easier.  Stand up for your rights, be yourself, and damn anyone who wont accept you for who you are.  

I'd also like to point out, my life hasn't been easy either, in fact anyone I know has had it rough at least a couple times.  I'm not blaming you for bad stuff that happened to you, I'm just saying that if their opinion bothers you, you don't have to let it.  I've been beat up, and picked on all my life, understand you're not the only one who gets *** on, and understand that it's nothing especially worse for you, there are always people with similar problems, or in worse ones.

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Learn to read, and learn to think.

I don't want anyone's opinion to matter for my life. I have no wish to go to extra lengths to satisfy anyone else's opinions.

However, if I don't, a whole load of crap is coming my way. Therefore, I have to.


You seem to have the assumption that "Have to" and "Want" are different things.  I wont go into the vastly documented studies and science proving that we're all self-serving.

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It's like if you haven't eaten anything for a long time, have gone hungry for days, you'll eat almost anything that resembles food. And you'll do it regardless of how nasty it tastes. Now, this isn't because you want to eat things that taste like crap, it's because you want to survive. Similarly, if you want to survive as a sane person, and you're not extraordinarily lucky, lots of things in your life will depend on others' opinions of you; thus, these opinions will matter. Not because you want them to, but because you have to to survive, and for your own sanity to survive.


Another assumption.  Lots of things CAN depends on other's opinions, it doesn't necessarily need to.  Then again, you seem to also think the bogeyman is going to come and wipe any Aspie off the face of the earth so I don't blame you for feeling like your helpless.

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Every time people treat you badly because you don't fit it, you have two choices: either you can conform to their expectations, or you can try to change their mind. In either alternative, what they feel and think about you is important.


That is horrible reasoning - you're starting to shift into a victimizer's mentality.  You again assume that those are your only options. But really, it's because you lack the ability to find another solution.  I can name 2 other solutions just off the top of my head without any real effort. 1.  Don't conform, let them think what they want.  2.  Earn their respect, so they appreciate the differences.

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Every time people treat you well, it's also to a large degree because of their positive opinion of you.


So?  So you're basically telling me you'll do anything to fit in, so that you don't have to deal with the pressures of worrying whether their negative thoughts of you will make your life worse.  Also, I treat everyone equally, I will smile, or help anyone in need, unless they have wronged me - it is also possible to give people the benefit of the doubt, and have a neutral opinion, with a positive outlook.

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You've gone further, stating that people who acknowledge that it does matter, regardless of whether it should or shouldn't matter, only say that because they want it to matter.


True statement.  If don't want to prepare yourself for the consequences of not fitting in, then you are actively choosing to let them have power over you because you like it better than the alternative.  When my boss lies, I call him on it.  I may lose my job, but his opinion does not matter to me, I wont let it.  He can affect my job, but I am capable of getting other jobs, he does not affect my life, *I* effect my life.  Get it now?

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You're saying everyone either wants to be dependent on other people's opinions of them, or they're paranoid and making up excuses. Do you not see why someone might call that rude


And as soon as you can quote me saying these words, I will take it into consideration that maybe I've lost track of what I've said.  My whole point, which I will repeat for the third time now, in slightly different wording: is that you can chose what matters to you, you can chose to be bothered or to not be. You're not paranoid or making up excuses for making other's opinions of you important - you chose to live that way.  But do not assume that it's like that because you didn't want it to be.  Personally, I find that mentality cowardly, but then again, my opinion doesn't matter ^_^.

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The point is, if you're oblivious to how people feel about you and your actions or if you simply choose to not act on this knowledge, in either event, you get the same outcome. It helps to care because other people have the power to make your life miserable or wonderful. Despite what you may tell yourself, every single person's happiness is largely dependent on the whims and fortunes of that indefinite mass that is other people. I repeat: unless you want to lose jobs, friends, be picked on, be the eternal outsider without friends, unless you don't want to be happy doing whatever it is you like doing, then what other people think matters.


Well since I never argued this point. I concede, you're right.  Just what I've been saying, other's opinions matter, if you want them to.

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Don't talk about things you have no knowledge about. You don't know how much or how little I or anyone else here have gone through. You don't know whether my life has been all rosy or living hell. You don't know who I am, you don't know me and I don't know you, so neither of us can know how the other's life has turned out so far. I refrain from baseless speculation for this reason, but that doesn't seem to stop you.


Seeing as I didn't speak about you, merely letting you know that other's have it worse (Which you can't deny, you're on the internet, there's millions who don't even have that luxury).  I have neither spoke about something I don't know about, nor said a word about you that I didn't already know.  Not to be pissy, but I hate it when people put words in my mouth or interpret what I say, instead of read it.

As for the rest of your reply, the only reason to believe what you believe is the assumption that there is consequences.  I'll keep living my life and deal with problems that arise, and you can keep catering to others so they don't treat/think of you poorly.  I hope one day you're not stretched so thin you forget who you are.

Zakkie...

But you think that just because one organization is speaking out about it, that it will make a difference?  Do you know how many people would be against it?  

Lets put this in perspective.  Here in America, the majority are Christian, and Republicans.

Why is it then, that abortion has not been outlawed, and gay marriage is being lawful in more and more states?  Not only is the entire liberal sphere going to be defending you, but so will the AACLU and other various organizations.  If one organization had any real hold over your lives, the KKK would be knocking at your door and asking where the black people are in your town.

I know it's scary, but you have to realize there's almost no possibility of any bill going through to make it compulsory to abort, kill, or correct autistic children.  In the long run, it will be up to the parents who have the kid in the first place.
An after thought to my first post, I didn't take too much time reading the statement.

But basically, earning their respect is a form of changing their mind, so I'll renege that statement.  "Without much effort" indeed lol.  I should have taken more effort.
Ah I see.  When you said genocide I thought you meant instantaneous - my bad ^_^.  Like some men in black would come around to kill off the ones alive, and prevent their births.  So really, the problem is once again for people not thinking for themselves huh?

Thats the reason I don't really like people.  It really is just all up to the parents, however, downs syndrome doesn't seem like a good comparison.  Retardation is a far cry away from autism.  Downs syndrome really is a hindrance to everyone who has it, despite how self-efficient they are, it's never near what someone without it is.

I guess people feel they can be smart/talented without autism so they feel that it's an inconvenience more than a benefit.  I like the normal course of nature though >,<.
This you tube video was pretty horrible - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRO6RTsbcjo  . I had this sent to me awhile back.

EvilZakkie Wrote:

Zachrates Wrote:
Ah I see.  When you said genocide I thought you meant instantaneous - my bad ^_^.  Like some men in black would come around to kill off the ones alive, and prevent their births.  So really, the problem is once again for people not thinking for themselves huh?

Thats the reason I don't really like people.  It really is just all up to the parents, however, downs syndrome doesn't seem like a good comparison.  Retardation is a far cry away from autism.  Downs syndrome really is a hindrance to everyone who has it, despite how self-efficient they are, it's never near what someone without it is.

I guess people feel they can be smart/talented without autism so they feel that it's an inconvenience more than a benefit.  I like the normal course of nature though >,<.


*grins* No probs.

I think Downs Syndrome has some of the same sorts of negative publicity as autism. I don't know a large number of Downs people, but the one I do know is quite socially adept (i.e. loud, funny, and well-liked), and is also quite an avid political activist.

I do know that there are accomplished Downs artists & actors. I've even heard that they have their own neurodiversity activists - though I've never actually met one.

Also, negative publicity campaigns on autism are far worse than those on Downs Syndrome.

Imagine if pre-natal testing for autism was available today, and a pregnant women was told her child may be autistic:

She might remember the NSW autism ads that I grew up with, with the slogan "What disorder can stop a child from loving their dog?".

She might go looking on the net, and find numerous blogs from parents moaning about how autism "stole their childs soul".

She might remember the numerous news articles about the autism "epidemic", or various autism "tragedies".

She might have seen Autism Speaks "Autism Everyday" video - featuring lots of kids having tantrums (no other footage of the kids was shown), parents complaining about their lives, and including the woman that stated she thought about "putting her autistic daughter in a car, and driving off a bridge". She also goes on to say the only reason she didn't so this is that she has another "normal" daughter at home. All said within earshot of her autistic daughter, of course.



Of course, I could be wrong, and the autistic abortion percentage could be, say, closer to the 70% mark - which would still be enough to do the job.

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Say you're trying to consider whether you, as chief of the US armed forced, should drop the a-bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or risk prolonging the war indefinitely and maybe suffer even harder losses--or your bet might turn out well, the war will quickly be over, and the civilian losses will be much smaller than if you drop the bomb. Now, whatever you do, lots of people will die. Would you say that this choice of death is because you want people to die? I would say that you don't want people to die, you were forced to make that choice. It would be incorrect to state that the people responsible for making that decision did so because they wanted lots of people to die.


Take it one step back.  He chose which choice to make, he weighed the pro's and cons, and made a decision.  Forced?  Not unless someone shoved his hand on the switch.  A more proper term would be "Saw no other alternative".

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No, but more often than not they do. Whether you will have friends, a job, a good relationship with your parents, the house you want, whether you're able to pursue your interests, whether you'll find a mate or die lonely and childless, whether you'll live rich or live poor, what education you'll get--all these things depend on other people's opinions of you. Some clearly more than others, and in some situations, extraordinary situations, what you do will matter more than what people think. But more often than not, it will.


I could live on my own if I didn't want to deal with anyone or anything.  By merely having that choice, it is my decision to endure whatever this society has in store for me.

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You're making assumptions again, and again your assumptions are wrong.


Actually it's the first assumption I made, but you're right, I was wrong.  I took words at face value and didn't know what you meant.  Ironically, neither side is right (In the debate about aborting autistic babies).  One side thinks it's a disadvantage, one doesn't.  What you and I think as being normal, or just different, is bad to them.  Ultimately it will be the parent's decision, and if they all want to abort them, what can you do, you know?

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I was assuming you'd want an end to the bad treatment. If you're a masochist, go ahead. If not, then choosing 1) will only prolong the bad treatment.


Well, you can always remove them from your life.  Get another job, don't talk to them etc.  Not saying it's the best <.< there are other methods.

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You're once again making assumptions wildly off the mark. I have said no such thing as "[I'll] do anything to fit in". This isn't binary. There's a difference between never doing anything to fit in, always doing everything to fit in, and sometimes doing something to fit in.


You stated, and I quote "I have no wish to go to extra lengths to satisfy anyone else's opinions.

However, if I don't, a whole load of crap is coming my way. Therefore, I have to."

And "Every time people treat you badly because you don't fit it, you have two choices: either you can conform to their expectations, or you can try to change their mind. In either alternative, what they feel and think about you is important."

ETC

I'm sorry if you stating in your own words how you have to conform to everyone in order to have friends and a comfortable life seems different than doing anything to fit in for fear of consequences.  You're really grabbing at air now aren't you.

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You effect your life, but your boss clearly affects your life.

You're not actively choosing to "let people have control over you". People do have control over you. It's inevitable. We live in society--in society, people exert power over people. No man is an island, and no man is unaffected by the power other people exert on them.

I'm guessing you don't say you're actively choosing to let people have control over you simply because you choose to live in society, as opposed to, say, becoming a hermit on a faraway mountain top.


Wow, my mistake, I didn't know that when you get a job, you don't sign an employment agreement, or actively seek one.  I guess in your town, other people decide what job you take.  That was sarcasm, by the way.  You keep forgetting to take a step back.  YOU got the job YOU let the boss be in control, therefore YOU are in control, not him.  When I get a job, I keep in mind I may lose it, but I can get another, therefore when my boss wants to fire me or I quit, it has little or no affect on me, and conversely it was my choice all along to make it this way.  It is equally the same in the opposite sense.  This whole argument is stupid anyway, it's philosophy, I know I'll never prove anything, and retrospectively you either.

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Since you don't care what I say, I don't feel bad for calling you an idiot. This is idiotic.


Good, you shouldn't lol

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Once again, you seem completely unable to see the conceptual distinction between doing something because you want to, and doing something out of necessity. I need fluid and food and shelter, and I'm willing to do very much to get it.


Oh I see, while we're at it, I guess you didn't chose to eat either?  Eating is just a random occurrence that happens with no effort or thought.  You know since it's a necessity to live obviously there's no choice in the matter.  Suicides are just myths where people happen to die because they had no other alternative, just like eating.  I'd also like to point out, the word "Willing" implies choice.  But I digress.  Necessity is merely a requirement for a state of being.  In order to stay alive, it's a necessity to eat.  Doesn't mean you have to stay alive.


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I acknowledge that there are always people who have gone through worse, but setting aside extremes, you don't know *** about me and therefore cannot tell how good or bad my life has been up to this point. Quit making faulty assumptions.


I never did, so drop the point already.  

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And if you don't want life to become a string of disappointments, you'll either have a mentality that is inborn (I say this because you apparently are fine with the way your life turns out, despite not caring what other people think--well, if that's the case, you're endowed with a mind of a kind that I don't have and can't will myself to have, and neither can most people), or be exceptionally lucky.


That would explain a lot actually.  No one but my best friend and fiance grasp any concept I try to present, because it's seemingly otherwise impossible to make yourself as I have become.  Sometimes I wonder if I have some sort of mental syndrome lol.  Anyway we can stop arguing about whether conforming will make your life better.  For the most part, it's true, unless you're like me, and cease to worry about things like that.  My whole point was there is a choice, not really that it's better to think like I do.

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Do you think people can choose not to want happiness?


Existence would cease without goals that involve some form of it, so no.

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If not, then you might see that for many people, this happiness is entirely dependent on the opinions of others, whether they like it or not (I for one, don't particularly like this realization). So, they don't choose it, it happens out of necessity. Anything else would be contrary to their nature.


Well no sense repeating what I've said a million times.  It only happens out of necessity if thats how they want to be.  I'm completely different, for instance, if someone accepts me for how I have conformed, I do not consider them friends, it's a perversion of the very definition.  Someone who doesn't accept you for who you are is not a friend at all.  I'm happier with real pain, than fake happiness.

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You wrote, "understand that it's nothing especially worse for you". How the hell could you know? You don't. Of course there are always worse things that could happen, but that doesn't mean something isn't "especially worse". Say, if you're talking about a victim of a brutal rape (note: this is an example, and only an example), you'd be wrong to say, "Hey, there are people who get abused to death! This is nothing especially worse for you!" And so it is with everything else.


Completely out of context, but whichever.  What my statement means, is that there are other's who suffer because of *** like this, and that you are not special in anyway.  How do I know?  There's a whole forum of people who probably have had similar experiences, there's MILLIONS of people out there who have had worse.

A proper example would be saying that a victim of brutal rape is not the only one who has been brutally raped.  And if a girl or guy who had been brutally raped, was incessantly saying how the world is unfair because it happened to her, and crying out for attention all the time, then I would state that there are other's in similar situations who have it much worse even and to stop whining.  I'm sorry I didn't add "to be suffering" at the end of the statement.  Thats what I was implying, and it's true, how the hell would I know - don't be stupid.  I wasn't pretending to know your situation, I was merely stating that you're not the only one who suffers because of something in their life.

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Wow. It's all binary to you, is it? There is a large continuum between doing nothing without getting acceptance from peers, and doing nothing   to ever get acceptance from peers. There is a large difference between someone who's unable to think or act for themselves unless they're certain they'll conform to society's norms, and someone who realizes that sometimes one needs to either conform or change the norms, for living on the side of the norms will often not be beneficial.

This isn't black and white.


Let me take your logic, and put it into perspective for you.  You steal from one person, and not from others.  Are you a thief?  Yes.

You conform to other's opinions when you feel you have to, but not to everyone.  Does this make you cater to other's opinions and/or conformist?  Yes.

You may think for yourself, you may not be a slave to society, but you certainly aren't being yourself.  Your happiness stems from not feeling bad, therefore you fear consequences.  It's simple psychology and logic.  You fear what is the opposite of happiness.  So I still see no problem in my statement.

Yes damn the no editing! lol

Well honestly I just love debate.  I don't really dislike anyone, I'm in it because I get no other mental stimulus minus talking philosophy to my fiance.  It's been a while since I've had a good debate.

I guess I haven't been clear either.  I can be pretty long-winded and come off as really mean when I debate.

Also, like you Simen, don't mean to tell you how to live at all, by all means everyone should do what makes them happy, it would be pretty pointless to be anything else...  Also, I didn't mean to accuse you of being someone who would do anything to fit in, what I mean is, you would rather fit in, to make it easier, than be yourself.  You don't have to do it all the time, I'm just saying, you know?

See the problem we have is philosophical.  I believe, backed by psychology that everyone takes action because of a choice to do so.  We only do things because we want to, even seemingly selfless ones.  I don't mean to say that you "Wish" things would hurt you.  What I mean, is you obviously prefer to be the way you are.  And since perspective is solely controlled by your mind, it is your choice to let other's opinions affect you.  They could possibly affect your life, but they only affect you, if you let them.  I'll concede to that.

Anyway, I have a problem wording things that are easily understandable, or completely say what I mean.  They often come off as cold, or used in an abrasive manner, when that isn't my intent.  It's not really personal to me, I just really like debate, and it's passing time like crazy at work so I'm loving it lol.
Well I'm not sure how I can mis-interpret.

You repeatedly state how you conform to other's in order to benefit your life.  I'm not sure anymore how to make you understand what you're typing anymore.  I mean you just again stated that you do.

The way you brought it across it seemed like you meant everyone.  Change it to "Mostly" everyone, or "A bit".  Lets not forget you've mis-interpreted mine, and that your arguments seem to me more of a "He's calling me names, I'm going to call him it back" rather than arguing over the points.  Whether you want to believe it or not, you're a conformist at least to some extent.  

Read your posts?  No need, you've stated yourself you conform, it may not be all the time, it may not be to everyone, but you admittedly DO conform.  I'm not sure what definition you have going, so if you like I'll call you "Partially Conformist" if you don't think that it should be in black and white.  Does that make you feel any better about yourself?
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