I hope there are some "experts" out there, because I really don't know.
For me, it is all "autism," though I typically use the word "spectrum" when I am talking to people because there are fewer misconceptions and less hype.
I hope there are some "experts" out there, because I really don't know.
For me, it is all "autism," though I typically use the word "spectrum" when I am talking to people because there are fewer misconceptions and less hype.
I agree with you, but unfortunately there's a lot of people (and some on AFF) who are sticklers for the specific categories, who don't consider PDD-NOS to really count as "Aspie." I notice these are usually the same people who fit most of the stereotypes of AS... 
Intelligence and Cognitive Deficits
Generally, children with PDDNOS do very well on tests requiring manipulative or visual skills or immediate memory, while they do poorly on tasks demanding symbolic or abstract thought and sequential logic. The process of learning and thinking in these children is impaired, most particularly in the capacity for imitation, comprehension of spoken words and gestures, flexibility, inventiveness, learning and applying rules, and using acquired information. Yet, a small number of children with PDDNOS show excellent rote memories and special skills in music, mechanics, mathematics, and reading.
With cognitive deficits, are we talking more about a cluster of specific learning disabilities, or... to put it more bluntly... more like a low IQ?
My IQ was found to be 99 at the age of 15, although I
have dyscalculia, awful short term memory, trouble with abstract/symbolic thinking, and problems with sequential logic (or anything requiring a lot of steps followed in a specific order.) I have never been told I had any kind of learning disability, however, which is shocking (to me.) Generally people tend to think I am intelligent, gifted in a couple small areas in fact.
I mean, what are we talking about with cognitive deficits? Does my above paragraph fit...? I still do not understand.
If cognitive deficits are the same as learning disabilities, you must be saying, then, that anyone with Asperger's who also has learning disabilities, does not have AS, but PDD-NOS instead...
Doesn't sound right to me. We have a lot of Aspies on AFF who have learning disabilities but are officially DXed with AS.
In any case, I suspect that cognitive deficits--as they pertain to PDD-NOS--are not the same as specific learning disabilities. I'd like Breeze, or someone else, to clarify this, please...
In loose terms, a person with a cognitive disability has greater difficulty with one or more types of mental tasks than the average person. Cognitive disabilities often have a basis in the structure or chemistry of the brain.
A person with profound cognitive disabilities will need assistance with nearly every aspect of daily living. Someone with a minor learning disability may be able to function adequately despite the disability, perhaps even to the extent that the disability is never discovered or diagnosed.
Clinical diagnoses include autism, Down Syndrome, traumatic brain injury (TBI), and even dementia. Less severe cognitive conditions include attention deficit disorder (ADD), dyslexia (difficulty reading),dyscalculia (difficulty with math), and learning disabilities in general.
Cognitive disabilities include deficits or difficulties with:
Memory
Problem-solving
Attention
Reading comprehension
Math comprehension
Visual comprehension
I have highlighted in bold all the areas of difficulty that are familiar to me. Does this mean I have PDD-NOS instead of Asperger's?
Remember, the criteria for Asperger's is not "without multiple learning problems." Kids with Asperger's are more likely to have learning disabilities than the average NT, for example. The required criteria is average or above average intelligence, which is not measured in which learning problems you have, but in IQ points. I have an IQ of 99 which was taken in 9th grade, and the test-taker said I was "exactly average" (her words.) However, there were several peaks and valleys and contradictions in the IQ test.
I need further clarification. I did not know that "multiple learning problems" means you are more likely to have PDD-NOS, than AS. This is new to me.
I worry for myself, because up until now I considered myself Aspergian, now I'm learning I may fit a category (PDD-NOS) that is close to mild retardation. What a blow to my self-esteem!!
[quote=Breeze]
In loose terms, a person with a cognitive disability has greater difficulty with one or more types of mental tasks than the average person. Cognitive disabilities often have a basis in the structure or chemistry of the brain.
A person with profound cognitive disabilities will need assistance with nearly every aspect of daily living. Someone with a minor learning disability may be able to function adequately despite the disability, perhaps even to the extent that the disability is never discovered or diagnosed.
Clinical diagnoses include autism, Down Syndrome, traumatic brain injury (TBI), and even dementia. Less severe cognitive conditions include attention deficit disorder (ADD), dyslexia (difficulty reading),dyscalculia (difficulty with math), and learning disabilities in general.
Cognitive disabilities include deficits or difficulties with:
Memory
Problem-solving
Attention
Reading comprehension
Math comprehension
Visual comprehension
First off I think EarthMonkey said it best your still the same person - it doesnt matter which category you fall into. From my knowledge PDD-NOS individuals do better socially then Aspergers. Secondly , PDD-NOS is not close to mental retardation. You can have average intelligence and have PDD-NOS but you can also have below average. It depends on the severity within each category. My son does not have Aspergers but he is not mentally ***. In fact he is very smart and is doing the next grades work successfully already. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses regardless of whether they are on the spectrum or not.
Okay, well then in that case, I need to know why they settled on the PDD-NOS diagnosis for your son, rather than the AS diagnosis.
I apologize, my posting style is to ask lots of questions until I reach a satisfactory conclusion. Or a logical conclusion, so to speak.
So if you don't seem to fit the typical profile, it's helpful to know that nobody really fits a typical profile when it comes to autism. Of course, when someone is publicized who doesn't fit someone's preconceived notions, they are almost always written off as anomalies, miracles, and the like. I think it's because a lot of people oversimplify the spectrum.
Earthmonkey, you tell me, then. In your words, what is your opinion of the "typical Asperger profile" ?
And if you include gifted IQ, early cognitive development, and math strengths, I'm going to throw up my hands and give up...
Apraxia was my son's diagnosis, though he never had speech. At age 3 he made two sounds. We had no way of knowing what the future might hold for him, though his comprehension seemed OK. Then he taught himself to read and write. As soon as he realized that those scribbles I was pointing to when we were reading MEANT something, he was unstoppable. Hello HFA. No, he is not "diagnosed" HFA, but for a mere $2000 he could be.
He makes all of his sounds now and is fully comprehensible to anyone if he isn't in a hurry. We hope that by adulthood only an expert will be able to tell how hard he has worked to talk. I guess that is the big thing .... he WANTS to, and he works so hard. I suppose if he had not seen the point in working so hard he would be considered LFA, even though his intelligence would be the same.
Anyway, as I understand it, Apraxia is a sequencing issue. The word is in the brain, but the brain has difficulty getting the mouth and tongue muscles to do what they need to do in the correct order. Matching the sound with the correct sequence of actions is difficult/impossible. That is what we were told, but it seems that brain imaging shows no differences between apraxic and non-apraxic children. Whatev.
So you can be HFA and have language delay? I know AS there is no speech delay. SO what your saying is my son is LFA since he lost his language? He was 11 months when he started talking. He is slowing getting his language back - someone mentioned apraxia to me. I'm not sure how that ties in with LFA and HFA. Do you know?
HFA's are supposed to have language development delay. LFA's may have some kind of regression and might actually stop speaking at a young age and might then never speak again.
I think a qualification for AS is no speech delay.
As I recall, I had no speech delay (I have some memories of when I was 2) and I was always adequately verbose. In fact, I would say I was a bit above average in overall language skills, at least up until the 4th or 5th grade when reading comprehension (looking for meaning) started to become more important than the mechanics.
Frankly I'd be annoyed if I went for a diagnosis and received "PDD-NOS." From my perspective, I certainly fit enough of the AS criteria to land in that specific category.
The "PDD-NOS" label is a pretty silly concept to me, and it's used in such a broad range of situations. My partner was dxed with it before AS entered the DSM, which actually made sense at the time. I don't think there's as much of a need for it today, though, and the term is just so non-specific. Today my psychiatrist was debating whether to change my dx to "PDD-NOS" even though I already have an AS diagnosis from someone else. Psychiatry is a mess rather than a science IMHO.
PDD-NOS was often used to describe atypical variants of autism when suspected in both children and young adults in the 1970's. The term "Asperger's" didn't exist in the American/ British lexicon during that time period. I think that breeze's differentiation between the two terms is most accurate from a current diagnostic and labelling perspective.
Its not telling them there is nothing the matter. Its just saying its not severe autism but its not Aspergers.
I see your point about the borderline diagnosis and think its a great idea. If only doctors could think of such things.
But you might as well be telling parents that there is nothing the matter when you say PDD-NOS. If it is subclinical, why not just call it Borderline Aspergers or Borderline Autism and have done with it?
But you can still have learning disabilities and have Asperger's.
Batman, do you know that there are other diagnostic criteria besides those in the DSM? Off the top of my head I can name Gillberg and Szatmari (hopelessly misspelled) as two alternate diagnostic schemes. You might be looking for absolutes where there really are none. I distrust the American scales, and lend more credence to the European ones, as they have recognized and studied AS for a much longer period of time, relatively speaking. Cultural overtones impair the DSM, in my opinion. It seems AS is more accepted and respected in Europe.
BTW, our developmental pediatrician diagnosed our daughter with PDD-NOS, I think to soften the blow of the autism label. The school district diagnosed her with garden-variety autism. I diagnosed her with AS. My neuropsychologist diagnosed me with mild Asperger's. Who knows what's right? I just stick with that loaded term autism, and the autism spectrum.
Every time I see people making broad generalizations about what "PDD-NOS" means, I wonder if they know exactly how varied the people are that the word can be officially applied to. PDD-NOS doesn't necessarily say anything about "severity" (as most people conceptualize severity). It doesn't necessarily say anything about language development. It doesn't necessarily say anything about anything, given the amount of combinations of things it can be used for, legitimately or otherwise, and it's wrong to make generalizations about "the unique manner in which PDD-NOS kids socialize as opposed to other kids on the spectrum" or "the severity of PDD-NOS as compared to Asperger and autism" etc. Those are meaningless statements.
I agree, especially the part in the bold print. Thank you for the informative post.