Aspies For Freedom

B"H

Hello.  Thank you for responding to my query.  I thought I understood the HFA/LFA debate.  However, maybe I do not.  I might need to have it fleshed out a little better.

My previous perception was that it was mainly a difference in perception between camps, the Aspies positioning themselves more on the Right, the other Spectrumites more on the egalitarian Left.  However, it appears that neither are storming the Paris barricades.  So, maybe I do not have the correct understanding of what the debate is.

Furthermore, I have tried everything to avoid "Aspie elitism," a term that I have heard a few people use.  I will therefore ask the Forum to comment on that concept.  Based on my writings, have I done enough to challenge any elitism?  Can someone explain what this elitism actually is, from their perspective?

I am not sure which side of the HFA/LFA side I am actually on.  For one thing, I have indeed been the victim of a real act of discrimination, something that I assume that HFA folks do not experience.  An evaluation was written about me from an Instructor who herself had an auditory processing issue, one that was extremely disparaging.  One remark on this evaluation claimed that I spoke above the level of my peers, making conversation impossible.  That can be rude, mind you; but consider that my "peers" are future High School teachers!  This person had the gall to say to me, "Whenever I have dealt with people like you, my heart is always broken."  I had come out to her about Asperger, and it was clear from the context of the conversation what she meant.  

This bizarre discrimination included a report that was filed in my record.  It has not been removed, in spite of my request.  It is difficult to prove, but I believe that this is part of a broader Anti-Semitic campaign that includes a broad coalition of forces.  As I said before, I disagree with 8Magus8 on many particulars, but he is right in stating that there are conspiracies.  They really do exist.  

One of the ring-leaders of the secret campaign against me was a member of a powerful organization that opposes Torah values.  While this sounds crazy, it is true.  It is one thing for her to believe as she does.  It is another thing to practice oppression over others.  I will discuss this conspiracy no further, save perhaps on PM, because it is not the focus of where I want to go on this Forum.  I am simply making a point that as an Aspie, who is probably not Autistic by some classifications, I am not immune to blatant societal discrimination of an appalling sort.  

So, while spending most of my life as an NT, I can say that others had to have known who I was before I did.  It must have been obvious that there was something different about this guy.  And, education is one of the most bigoted areas of our society, run by people who are Administrators first, not teachers.  They care more about politics and budgets than kids and teachers.  I am one of the few NEA members to honestly say that I might consider homeschooling.

Well, alright, I am rambling.  To the point, help me understand the whole debate.  What side do "LFA" folks tend to take?  What side does "my side" tend to take?  While my sense is that the HFA side tends toward the Right, while the others tend toward Social Democracy, socialism or Anarchism, I do not want to make any further assumptions.

Now, one rule.  I would like this to be on the point, and not about personal attack.  If it degenerates in to the latter, I will ask Zakkie to seal up the thread.  Furthermore, I will not discuss the movement against me any more on-Forum, so please do not ask me to explain it further except, perhaps, through PM.  Finally, I do not want any more talk about "Gangs" here.  

I will make but one comment on the "Gangs" issue.  When any Forum is divided like this one is, I believe that we can always wonder if a dark hand is at work.  I believe that some of  the N*zis survived WWII through Operation Paperclip.  They are the real force behind Middle Eastern terrorism.  And, our current President's grandfather was one of their backers (the Bushes being generational Yalies steeped in dark secret societies).  This is not "conspiracy."  It is fact.  Other wealthy Americans supported the Th*rd Re*ch as well.  One hopes that they will make amends.  

Some of the N*zis that were brought to America committed horrible experiments on Autistic children.  It is not inconceivable that these forces have created an artificial division between Aspies and Autistics, and may have convinced some of the former that they are part of the "master race," preventing them from loving the lattergroup.  Those who buy in to such a concept are acting as fools.  My hope is that they wake up.  And, I encourage any and all of you to never listen to them, no matter how smooth their tongue is, no matter how well they write or speak.  

So, without most people in the gangs realizing it, I believe that a manipulation could be at work.  Again, I do not want to discuss this too much further, because my point is the Light.  However, I feel that it is my duty to give this as a warning.  My hope for this thread is to contribute to the overcoming of any HFA/LFA divide, and to bring people together.  I hope that it contributes to that purpose.

Alright, I have stepped in to it again.  Go for it while I duck!

All the best,

The other place I've seen the term used is in group wars - some people think particular autistic groups have better people than others, rather than looking at the individual people within that group. The most notorious of these is "AFF vs WP".

ATM:  Now you've got me curious.  How does AFF supposedly "have it better" than its rivals?  Or worse?

What exactly is that argument as it is framed?  That does not mean you agree with the assumptions, but can I at least understand it a little better.  I was accused of being on one side or the other, or both, I do not remember.  Being a little unsubtle on social cues---very unsubtle---I do need some help here.

All the best,

Thanks.  I tried to explain to folks the context of the rules.  They were not intended as a form of elitism, but as a tonic to the degradations of being cast out of society.  A combination of loving discipline with high expectations is the best tonic for any set of rules.  

Outside of that context, yes they would be elitist.  However, again, I would like to understand the issue as others do, not as I do.  So, I will step aside and let others talk.

B"H

I understand, Guess Who.  The thing is, I actually need a rubric for really understanding the issue.  Who gets offended at what?

Who tends to want a cure?  Who tends to support AFF versus who like Wrong Planet?  You know, the basics.  

Who wants to support Autism Speaks versus who wants the "Gangs of AFF" to pay them a visit?

Thanks.

What if I said I'm sitting at the top of this conspiracy (with about 2-3 others), and I'm operating under another name on WP, without divulging my AFF identity thereabouts...?
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ATM: I would offer to help you coordinate it better, because as it is I can see it unraveling.  

Don't worry, Batman55.  I am really not very paranoid.  It is more a case of job discrimination than anything beyond that.  I can document it, unlike other theories that are without a paper trail.  I hope it never reaches the Courts.  And, Batman55, take this as a compliment; you are not cut out for this crowd.  They don't take honest people.

I am not really here to focus on it.  If I do, then it has won.  I have decided to stay out of the Gangs argument, and most political arguments from now on.  I am here for the Good. The rest is incidental.  My main point is to focus on the question of what HFA and LFA mean.

Batman55, do you want to give it a shot?   Help me understand the politics of AFF better, and then you can join my gang!

ATM: Guess Who, maybe there are effective ways of assisting people to reach marriage, kids, dreams, and career.  It does not involve any "cure."  Rather, it might involve....Do me a favor and watch "Stand and Deliver" (1988) if you have not.  It involves NT kids who were destined for nothing, until a teacher who believed in them stepped forward to teach them Calculus.  Unlike the usual Hollywood sap story, it is actually based on a true story (like "Freedom Writers").  I think that it might have something to say to us.

Stand and Deliver is hard to get, but worth it.  Let me know what you think.

All the best,

I'll ask him...

Thanks.

ATM: Guess Who, I cannot really help you with women.  I understand your situation, and share it.  My sense is that with the male-female ratio being as it is, many of the male Aspies may have to marry NT ladies.  If so, then I would hope that we at least teach our children about their Aspie heritage, and hope that they carry on its traditions and institutions.  

You may have to consider that, with the Spectrum being primarily male, you might not find the Asperger lady you are looking for.  If she exists, maybe you'll meet her on this Forum.  Mazel Tov, if you do.  However, you might also consider the possibility of a NT lady who believes in you, understands the Spectrum, and who is willing to allow you to share that part of your heritage with your children.  I don't think that this is "betrayal."  Some of you might, and I do understand your position if you do.  

And please do me this favor, Guess Who.  For one thing, keep that cute kitty cat.  That's the cutest cat I've ever seen.  For another thing, please try to spell out the HFA/LFA debate as best you can, say who tends to be on one side or who is on the other, and then show me how to not offend one group or the other so that I stay out of trouble!

B"H

Well, I have really said enough about it on-Forum.  We can discuss it via PM if you'd like.  It is a very weird story that would *SOUND* crazy if it were not true.  

Even the local DA admits that it is true, but won't prosecute.

However, again, this is not my point here.  Again, I'm a so-called "HFA/Aspie", and I would like to learn what side of the debate I have been drafted on to.  Personally, I think that all sides should join the e^x gang I have started down in the Fun and Chat section, and jointly practice our "natural spiral" skills for dealing with wise guys who oppose us.

Seriously, what is the issue because I thought I understand it but now I do not?

ATM: Guess Who, I can see that my own experience is very different than that of some people on this Forum.  I never went to Special Education.  I was never non-verbal.  My problem was I never shut up.  I still can't.  

I am curious.  Is there a movement afoot to radically deny civil rights to Autistics?  Does this movement have official standing?  Voting restrictions?  That type of thing?  Such a movement has strong precedents in American history...

B"H

Zakkie,

The scary thing is that the Holocaust did not begin with the murder of Jews or political dissidents.  It began in the early thirties with children who were deemed unfit.

And yes, what you are saying lines up with what I believe except that I don't see these people as benign in any way.  "Evil" is a word that fits here.  And, I also understand that some American States do deny voting rights on the basis of disability.  I read about it in the New York Times a while ago.

I guess it's coming up on Autumn in the Land Down Under.  Stay warm, good man!

All the best,

I can understand that - But I think it's easy to underestimate what that sort of fear can do...

If we go around calling curbie parents "evil", we stand no hope of getting through to them. Basically, it's important to remember that these people can be reached.

ATM:  Sorry, my mistake.  I was not referring to parents.  I was referring to the Judge Rottenberg Center, a place of cruel torture as you know.  As someone who has worked with kids, I might be so overwhelmed if such cruelty were in my presence...I'd better go no further.  

Parents are OK with me.  I understand the dilemmas, the sorrows, the joys, the feeling of being existentially trapped, and the joy of going beyond oneself.  Sorry if I was misunderstood.

Ah, I see - then yep, as far as JRC goes, evil would be the right word...

I often wonder whether I am really "HFA."  I want to understand the definitions of the terms better.  I am verbal.  I can talk.  I can drive.  I can relate to people.  However, I seem to be trapped in economic penury, in spite of having graduated from University.  How "high functioning" is that, really?

Could someone address the possibility that a person could be an "LFA" who can function as a Neuro-typical in the world, at least in some areas?  In other words, can someone theoretically be a "LFA" who is in hiding?  

I have just come around to use the term "Autistic" to describe myself.  Now, I might have to face the possibility that I am not all that high functioning.  Could someone give me a good definition of these terms as they are used?  It is understood that a lot of you don't agree with them.  My point is to simply understand the language as it currently exists.  I desire it for self-knowledge purposes only, not to make any grand political statements.

All the best.