Over the last few years, I have had increasing difficulty doing "simple" math operations, such as some addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. I can do some extremely basic stuff without a calculator, but a lot I can't, such as the other day when trying to calculate a quiz score and my calculator lacked batteries.
It was half a point off for each question, and I got two wrong of ten, and I couldn't for the life of me figure it out. then, when someone pointed out to me that it was 4/5, I was completely bewildered. And money is a really difficult thing. I basically rely on the cashier counting it right, because I'll usually over or under-pay. One time by three dollars under, and another time I overpaid by twenty dollars.
For the last few years, it would just take me a lot of time to do this calculations without a calculator, but even then I could do it by pen and paper. Now, for many calculations that is all but impossible. Thing is, people have trouble believing I have this trouble, as I am studying abstract algebra and number theory, as well as multivariable calculus.
People think that because I can understand the abstract concepts, and because I memorized the multiplication tables when I was nine, that it should still come easily. But, in fact, my rote memory is pretty much shot now even though it used to be quite good (the exception to my poor rote memory is select visual details from my memory that I can recall very well).
I guess my question is: for college and the real world, how might this affect me? What about taxes? I know next to nothing about those, but I hear even NTs groan about having to fill those out, even financial considerations aside.
I specifically want to major in math, physics, or computer science. Will my mental calculation skills factor into this? I'm pretty good with a graphing calculator, though I still sometimes switch numbers around, so if the only calculations I have to do for my coursework I can do with a calculator, then I don't anticipate much trouble.
You can use a calculator in college. There is good tax software that does all the calculations, so no worries there.
I've been told that Einstein had your particular challenge, so you're in good company.
I'm the same way - I can understand and solve complex equations, but if I get them wrong, it's because I added, subtracted, multiplied, or divided incorrectly. Go figure. No pun intended. Okay, very bad joke.
I'm working toward a mechanical engineering degree myself. I took some time off recently to move and get my life sorted out but I'm going back soon, and I've been using this in-between time to go back and brush up my basic math skills, geometry, and algebra. I've been buying math study guides (I recommend the CliffNotes and "Demystified" series), and slowly but surely it's all coming back to me.
I think I'm one of those people who will constantly need to remind myself how to do those simple things if I want to keep working on more complex math without a hitch. I always struggled in math, even though I really enjoy it. (I'm a nerd.)
As for taxes, it's amazing how many people do understand it and are willing to help you with yours for free, or for a very small charge. I always ask around between my friends and coworkers before tax time. As a last resort you can always take them to a place like H&R Block, but they usually charge outrageous prices to do them.
All I can say is that I would do anything to have your math troubles instead of mine, Earthmonkey. I am the opposite - I am excellent at arithmetic and can do addition, substraction, multiplication, and division relatively quickly in my head, but all of the theoretical/abstract stuff is completely beyond me. The reason why I would rather my abilities be switched to be like yours is because being bad at algebra/calculus is significantly more crippling in higher education... If you're bad at arithmetic, you can just bring along a small calculator and your problems are solved. On the other hand, if you're unable to grasp the abstract concepts involved in advanced calculus, it is nearly impossible to succeed in an advanced academic setting.
Yes, I too have the habit of frequently forgetting and having to relearn stuff. Along with a book in linear algebra and a book on multivariable calculus that I bought, I also had to refresh on basic trigonometry. Same way for physics, chemistry, and almost any other subject. I taught myself some calculus and physics in 7th grade, but a year later completely forgot. I had to relearn last year, but I got burned out mid-semester and now I am going to relearn it.
It's an interesting sitation, as if I were to tell about how I taught myself calculus first when I was ten, then when thirteen, then people would not believe me, if I couldn't do it now (even doing it there on the spot, now that I am older and have been in a calculus course, people wouldn't believe me - it's a good thing I'm not inclined to tell people - I mean what would be the point).
I should get a small calculator for the addition to do during shopping, as I wouldn't take my graphing calculator to the store. Then I wouldn't have the experience so much of going to the counter and finding I'm twenty dollars short and have to take stuff back.
An interesting point of this is how, on some days, for a short interval, I'll flip and be really good with arithmetic and completely not get spatial/abstract stuff. It's an interesting experience trying to explain this pattern, and getting people to believe me (like the one time I went along shopping with my mom and calculated the prices of the things as well as the tax, and was only about a dolar off for a 50 dollar purchase.
I specifically want to major in math, physics, or computer science. Will my mental calculation skills factor into this? I'm pretty good with a graphing calculator, though I still sometimes switch numbers around, so if the only calculations I have to do for my coursework I can do with a calculator, then I don't anticipate much trouble.
When you wrote that you understood abstract principles well I was going to say that mental calculation beyond the very basics is useful but not strictly required for math, physics, computer science, etc., but then I read about not being able to figure out how much to pay, being bewildered about 8 out of 10 correct answers being 4/5, and so on, and now I'm not so sure.
We don't know you like you do, so it's hard to give any advice, but it seems to me that you lack the numerical intuition you'd need to do well in those areas. On the other hand, you write that you taught yourself algebra, physics, calculus and so on. My unification algorithm* simply can't make sense of this. It seems to me that it wouldn't be possibly to be so bad with numbers and yet understand physics, calculus, etc.
Now, not being able to do multidigit multiplication, squaring or division in your head won't hinder you (much) in math-heavy subjects, but having to rely on the cashier when making payments?!
I guess what I'm saying is that I can't make sense of you based on the description you gave--on the one hand you seem to be basically innumerate and on the other quite good at mathematical concepts.
So I really can't give much advice (even if I were qualified to give it, something I'm unsure of) about how it'll affect you.
* Unification being a CS concept you might encounter, should you choose to do computer science: basically, stuff like balancing equations such as f(x, y(z)) = a(b,z) variables that fit into the slots, etc.
B"H
For all the talk about autism "disrupting" communication between different areas of the brain, it sounds like some of us have unique ways of functioning. Earthmonkey seems to have her conceptual understanding down pat. That might correspond to the prefrontal cortex, important to conceptual understanding in math.
The parietal lobe contains more of the spatial aspects of number sense, however. The interrelation between the two seems to affect both dyscalculia, and, strangely enough, connects to autism. Most of the articles on the subject have unfortunate terms like "diminished capacity," or "disorder," so I will refrain from forwarding them. I think that they do have merit, however.
I don't know enough about it to comment as an expert. However, very simply, Earthmonkey seems to have compensated for a disconnect between the prefrontal cortex and the Parietal lobe (hardware) with improvised software, an ingenious improvisation. It is no mean feat to teach oneself Calculus. Her experience, if documentable, fits in to my conjecture as to what autism actually is. And, by the way, "autism" and "asperger" are less valid to me than the term "Spectrum." I like "Spectrum", and I am proud to be on it. I prefer the term, since it is a big tent that can include all of us, and also Neuro-typicals who embrace our principles.
What else did I want to say...yeah, if I ever hit the jackpot, I would contribute to ending innumeracy and helping with dyscalculia. Maybe the spread of "Spectrum" principles among potentially sympathetic NT's might help with creating new neural pathways, as it has with us.
Best of luck to earthmonkey.
Does the generally accepted pattern of brain area X controlling mental function Y work for Autistic brains? (I'm not doubting you, Monotheist, I genuinely don't know one way or the other.)
When I had an EEG done as part of getting diagnosed, it found activity in the 'wrong' bits of by brain for the activity I was doing - for instance, the bit that should have been firing when I was doing arithmetic was not functioning much at all during the mathsy bits of the test, but was very active when I was sitting quietly with my eyes closed trying to meditate. The bit that WAS firing while I was doing arithmetic was apparently a bit way at the back that's supposed to deal with language.
But I don't know whether this is An Aspie Thing, or I'm just peculiar...
Um, now to bring this back on topic...
I've forgotten how to do short division - I can do long, but not short. And my mental arithmetic's slipped badly too, but that may just be lack of practice, because these days I usually don't have to add up my grocery bill in my head as I go, because there's a little more money coming in than there used to be!
B"H
Ethel, I am not the world's expert on the brain. So, whatever your experience may be is valid beyond my interpretation.
If I hit the jackpot, I'd be hiring the best experts to help me with innumeracy and dyscalculia. That would include brain experts!
All the best, and I think that if you practice short-term division you will remember again.
I've got the opposite issue. If mathematics relates directly to real life eg. adding up change, I'm fine but when one has anything theoretical, I truly flounder. Perhaps there is too much of a stereotype of people with autism being maths geniuses.
We're supposed to be getting a small calculator tomorrow (was supposed to be today, but I forgot). That should help some (my cell phone has a calculator, but I don't know how to use it). We're also going to get a good magnifying glass (I had a lot of trouble on my history exam, in part due to headache and lack of magnifying glass).
B"H
How did the test go? How is Stat class for you? Let us know about your progress. Personally, these fancy calculators for Statistic are hard to learn!
Maybe someone could PM a good website on how to use them for me?
Signed: Don Aspie'ony of the e^x Gang
Out in the real world, as opposed to the silly little fantasy play of primary/secondary "education", real professionals use "calculators" and "computers" in order to--here's the punchline--calculate and compute! The first, last, and ONLY time I ever did a standard deviation through all steps by hand was in some silly class. As a biologist, I calculate uncounted standard deviations--always by computer.
I can do math, some of it needs refreshing, but I can. And I'm very quick when it comes to calculating. But if money is involved.... I can't do it or it takes really a lot of time. So I've been asking for help, very specifically for money and administration issues. It took me a year to get people to understand that I really meant it. I cannot do forms etc. esp. not when money is involved. I've always failed economy tests too. My mind just blocks.