Aspies For Freedom

Full Version: Discussions that Divide and Conquer
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.

Batman55 Wrote:
I've been reading some of the recent discussions/threads on AFF (you probably know what I'm talking about) and find myself depressed/angry/at a loss for words.  I see innocent people getting hurt in these discussions, and I would like it to stop.

Anyone else feel the same way?  I don't think "dividing" the community is a good way to keep to peace.


I agree!

'Freedom of Expression' is a worthy idea which fails entirely if used as an excuse for abuse.

Lucie1 Wrote:
As long as people remain respectful - there is no problem - we should be able to respect and accept that there will diverse opinions and ideas on strong subjects and these subjects will be brought up for discussion from time to time.

If you are concerned, start other threads - don't gripe about what other people want to talk about and discuss.


I was about to post something like the above.
I don't see the point in suppressing discussion, but do have a desire for it to be civilized.

Pakrat Wrote:

Lucie1 Wrote:
I will agree - two wrongs don't make a right.

Two lefts don't make a right either.


But three do! Big GrinBig GrinBig Grin

pssvr Wrote:
Three lefts make a Democratic '08 caucus.


Big GrinBig GrinBig Grin (I've watched the news, so I got that!)

pssvr Wrote:

Quote:
And... I don't think it's simply "my choice" or anyone else's to be offended... it's something that happens.

I absolutely disagree.

The extent to which a person is offended by a group criticism is determined by a combination of multiple factors, including:

-The level of that person's own recognition of his or her distinctions and the fact that others don't always approve of such distinctions.

-The extent to which the person places immediate personal interest in the interests of the group as a whole.

-The level of self-respect and self-control that person has imposed upon himself or herself.

Furthermore, arguments that are likely to cause great offense as has been seen here must either have legitimacy or target a group that, for whatever reason, is liable to be offended upon attack. I could say left-handed people are inferior, and I doubt anyone would be offended or at all put off - they would simply think I was an idiot and move on with their lives. This offense that is being taken to an anti-gay argument should be carefully analyzed, and a more logical decision should be made as to whether LC is really the cause or simply the enabler of offense.


The left-handed thing sounds like a joke, here.

But if you were to make that assertion to a group of amputees who had lost their right hands it would not be remotely funny. Or to people of my mother's age who, like her, were beaten as children for daring to use their left hands.

Do you see? If the above were pointed out to you, I am quite sure that you would apologise and desist.

We have expressed time and again the view that LC is behaving like an idiot but we cannot 'get on with our lives' as, when he is ignored, he simply escalates his behaviour. He won't stop insisting that whichever group he is currently abusing actually deserves the abuse, and that we are all either potential or actual victims of the abused group.

He is also, by being allowed to continue, painting a very poor portrait of AFF.

EvilZakkie Wrote:

pssvr Wrote:
Here's a question for debate: Is it at all appropriate on a forum that is supposed to be supportive that we openly share negative opinions of a user where he can read them? Of course, I'm certain LC is self-confident enough to discount the meaningless name-calling that has been directed at him, but that is not the point. The point is that, if we *really* feel there is a need for action to be taken against him, there should be a hidden forum created for moderator / administrator discussion only, and this open flaming should be deleted.

Because, when you get right down to it, 90% of this thread has been flaming. The fact that most of you agree with what is being said does not at all affect the preceding sentence.


I don't think the forum should be supportive towards bigots - that's kind of the point of this thread.

I'd agree that much of it has been flaming - and I have no problem with that.


I would far rather that any perceived faults of mine were dealt with in an open forum like this where I would have a chance to apologise and explain, rather than by a discussion in camera to which I would have no chance of putting my defence.

Batman55 Wrote:
Folks should give me some credit for getting him banned. Tongue  I PMed Gareth specificially about the bigotry LC was showing, got a response that said "I'm looking into it," and I find that since I've returned after a one-day absence, he is banned.


Thanks, Batman! Big Grin Especially for being brave enough to stand up and be counted!

And thanks to several others here who reported threads, PMed mods and emailed the Admin. but have their own reasons for remaining anonymous.

Thanks to all who stood together in roundly condemning the prejudice, bigotry and hate-speech in post after post, thread after thread.

AFF is a better place for all, due to your efforts.

I think the members, moderators and administration of AFF deserve a round of applause!

Lucie1 Wrote:

Quote:
In any society that has undesirables, I'm an undesirable too.

The only thing I do not tolerate is intolerance.

There's no sense in insulting someone for something they're proud of.


A quote I found that could be applied to this situation - and my feelings.

I hope you are proud of yourself Batman - you too tigger.


Of course!

I believe that your standing up for the underdog is an admirable trait.

Unfortunately I believe that in this instance your judgement was awry. If you caarefully read every post and thread by LC, and every response from the members here it will become obvious that it was LC doing the bullying, LC who was intolerant of all viewpoints other than his own and LC who only apologised for offence caused if it could be proved that he or his immediate family would face prejudice in real life if the world followed his philosophy.

I do not believe that a mass self-defence can be regarded as bullying. Does anyone call a herd of antelope 'bullies' for turning their antlers en masse towards a lion? RolleyesRolleyesRolleyesRolleyes

Erkolos, what an eye-watering sentence, but yes! Big GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig Grin

Lucie1 Wrote:
It's odd - cause I saw LC as having viewpoints and ideals that were in a minority on this forum. To me - he was a person on this forum of a minority status because of his view point. He is just a man with a point of view - living somewhere in America. His views are his views - everyone is entitled to their views. What the hell.
It seemed to me - he was attacked for holding an unpopular viewpoint. Was he really worth all the bother and attacking type posts that continually dragged out the argument on this forum. What not just say - live and let live. He is an aspie with a point of view that doesn't fit with the majority - that's all - no big deal - just a little man with a view point. I think what really gets to me is the self righteousness and the gloating and the ganging up with no respect for a persons self integrity and soul.
Awful to see - he was an aspie who was shown intolerance for holding an unpopular and uneducated point of view. There are kinder ways to help people find truth - bullying and banning aren't appropriate options - and neither is the gloating that followed the banning. Just poor behaviour in my book. Two wrongs don't make a right. (feel free to take the piss).


Now you are just putting forward silly things. The guy was a hate-monger, pure and simple.

I will repeat myself:

If someone attacks a group, the group defending itself as a group is not guilty of bullying!

He was tolerated for ages. He was shown constructive criticism and reasoned argument. All of which he ignored in favour of spewing hateful rubbish.

If you care for him above all the people here that he hurt, why do you not find which board he is now infecting and chat with him there?

You act as though you think that we are all horrible on this forum. Nobody HAS to stay here, you know. We didn't execute the guy, merely asked him to leave here.

I don't like the kind of posts I saw the first time I visited Wrong Planet - so I never went back.

Natalie Wrote:
I hate internet drama almost as much as I hate real-life drama. I don't do it. As soon as I see a thread showing signs of turning into a flame-war, I stop posting in it.

It's like a saying I've heard quite frequently, "Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics - even if you win, you're still a ***". I realize that is politically-incorrect, so it's probably going to start another flame war.

Sorry.


Well, I've had that one thrown at me Wink

I double-inverted it by posting that, 'Yeh, but I'm still a winner !'

Lucie1 Wrote:

Quote:
The only place homosexuality/lesbianism belongs is sexual exploration and self-discovery. Lots of young people have homosexual/lesbian encounters when they are young, but thats as far as it goes. Don't get me wrong, I would not stop someone from doing it... their choice, but I don't agree with it.


Zacchie - in my book LC's words do not constitute an attack or harrassment.  He accepts people have the right of choice - he wouldn't stop them from doing it - he just holds a personal opinion on the matter, as he has every right to. This does not constitute bigotry.

Bigotry is when people think their way of thinking is the best and only way. Bigots are not open to the opinions of others.


LC was never open to the opinions of others, and either tried to twist the data that proved him wrong or simply ignored them.

While we are quoting from the gospel according to logicalconclusion, why not read this in his defence of his assertion that gays are more likely to be pædophiles:

logicalconclusion Wrote:
To Bella:

You are talking about genders and lifestyles as if they are interchangable. For instance, Rape is wrong, a man is more likely to be a rapist than a woman. Testosterone and other biological differences. However, adding a lifestyle to the man that makes him more likely to rape children IS wrong too. Men are more likely to burglarize, though even more likely to burglarize when they are do illicit drugs. Men are not bad, but drug usage is.

It is certain that what EZ has said in his earlier post resonates with all of us here. It is really important that such "polite trolling" be recognised for what it is primarily trolling NOT primarily polite. The tone in which people post abuse is a red herring - even sugar coated manure is still fæces!

With the best will in the world, the mods cannot be here 24 hours a day. With someone posting as prolifically as LC and all those who wished to defend AFF members responding, there was an enormous backlog for them to wade through before they were able to ban him.

And they banned him for legitimate reasons. Nobody here gets banned on the say-so of one other miffed member. Only for serious abuse of the forum rules.

So if anyone doubts that what LC was doing was trolling, just look at his username.

Lucie1 Wrote:
I would love to say what I think of you ocampo - but I can't - my morals and sense of what right - stop me.


It is a pity that LC didn't have the morals and sense of right not to say what he thought of people who weren't like him.

Fortunately for you I have morals and a sense of right too, and I regard ocampo as one of the best people to have joined this forum.

I also believe that everyone else who stood up to LC's evil is a worthy person.

Sometimes some people here appear to misjudge arguments and unfortunately stand up for the wrong party. Sadly this has happened quite a lot recently. I do hope that their judgement improves soon.

oh - as indicated on the copy of the PM above - the PM was sent in the heat of the moment 7-30 am my time - My apologies came later when I had time to calm down a bit and after I chatted with Zacchie.


Congratulations to Zacchie!!!!!! Moderator - you'll be great zacchie.
last word - ocampo - put me on your ignore list - that way you wont have to put up with my
PM's sent in the heat of a moment.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Reference URL's