Aspies For Freedom

The defining dimension in ADHD is attention - having a hard time keeping a focus on tasks and processes (including listening). The defining dimension in AS is empathy and empathetic responses to others - having a hard time (a) making sense of what people do in the world, and thus (b) meeting people's expectations of behaviour.

These dimensions overlap in our behaviour (eg being unable to maintain focus on somebody speaking necessarily impairs empathetic capability). Also, empathy gets defined in various ways, some of which can be quite problematic - eg ability to have an appropriate feeling (sad, happy, regretful, sexy, etc) vs ability to adopt courses of action that make sense to others (eg to help, to care, to support, to be independent). Even so, these are quite distinct practical relationships between a person and the outside world. One is to do with unstable perceptual focus, the other is to do with meaningful action and interaction within a social framework of expectations. Although they may look a bit similar sometimes, from the outside, from the inside these surely are not at all the same?

It sounds to me as though there's some sloppy conversation on the Norwegian boards? Perhaps the dialogue is hijacked by 'treatment'-oriented, medicalised descriptions of these forms of experience, or the problems of people like schoolteachers in classrooms? Surely it's the inside view that matters to us? We live here.

Somehow, when I was in middle school, I was officially diagnosed with ADHD. If anything, it seems like ADD would be a better match, but I think it happened when I was (a) already on prescribed stimulants and therefore hyperactive or (b) happened when the prevailing medical opinion was that "ADD" didn't exist anymore, only different subtypes of ADHD. Regardless of what the situation was back then, I strongly feel it was misdiagnosis and that it is possible that many other AS people have been misdiagnosed as ADD/ADHD and vice versa.

The ADD/ADHD diagnostic criteria don't fit me nearly as well as the AS criteria (in fact, the former barely fits me at all), so that's why I consider myself to be AS instead. That said, when I was getting diagnosed with ADHD the psychiatrist would ask me vague questions like "Why don't you do well in school", to which I reply with something along the lines of "I'm not interested in a lot of subjects, so they are very difficult for me to learn", which I think could be easily misinterpreted as an ADHD-type response.

My step-grandson was, about five years ago, diagnosed with ADD/ADHD (not sure which) when he started school. Now the diagnosis is Asperger's. There is probably a big overlap in outward behaviours, thus confusing the likely underlying reasons for those behaviours.

As barefoot doc says, it is the inside that matters. Unfortunately, it is impossible to do anything other than guess what is going on inside another's mind - hence the (multiple) mis-diagnoses.

I'm quite certain I have a "combination" of AS and ADHD-C ("combined type"--more hyperactive when younger, but I still exhibit attention-seeking and some risk-taking behavior.)

In general, though... I would say my ADHD is predominantly inattentive, or at least it is now.

When I first came to AFF and wrote about my issues (which I felt are mostly tied to Asperger's) a few people dismissed me as "simply inattentive ADD," so I hope I've made a more compelling case for them since.

Yep. I have ADHD and Asperger's myself. They're very common.

The cool thing is that sometimes they compensate for each other: The literal thinking of Asperger's is somewhat offset by the "flight of ideas" associational thought of ADHD. And having such a hard time concentrating thanks to ADHD doesn't seem to affect that I can still hyperfocus not only on my special interests but sometimes on other things--for example, on finding the most efficient pattern to use to mop a floor. Being naturally drawn to order as an Aspie helps my ADHD because I can use that to create order in my mind--to create some kind of structure (such as established procedures, lists, and routines) so that I don't have to have unbroken attention and memory in order to stay somewhat on track.

They can add up, too. I think that's why my sensory issues are so bad and why I have so much trouble with schoolwork even when I enjoy the subject. But in general, the combination shows a lot of promise, especially if I learn how to work with it.

#$%@#!  I always forget this forum doesn't use html.  Sorry for the messed-up post.  Let me try again:

No, you haven't missed anything.  They are not the same word.  They mean two different things.
Neurotype: The "type" or catagory of functioning a brain displays.  Essentially, the idea is that different brains are built differently.  So, an NT brain is a different "type" of brain than an autistic brain.  Hence, the word "neurotype".
Neurodiversity:  The concept of a diverse range of neurotypes.  This is the idea that all neurotypes, NT, autistic, and others, are acceptable and normal parts of the range of human biodiversity.
Neurotypical:  The kind of neurotype that is considered to be "normal" or "typical" of human beings, the kind which medical professionals claim is the "correctly functioning" brain.  It's a bit of a misnomer because the true Neurotypicals are probably in the minority, making them no longer truly "typical".
Neurodivergent: Any neurotype that is NOT NT.  This is sometimes used to mean "autistic", but that is an incorrect usage.  It really just means "Neurologically different" and it's a catagory that includes all neurotypes other than NT.

Does that help?

Luai lashire,

Do you think it's possible that someone could have inattentive ADHD (with the symptoms you write of, above) and Asperger's at the same time?

I think I have this combination, personally.

Yes, I do think it's possible.  I haven't met someone with it, personally, so I can't say what it would look like for sure.  But I'd guess that the ADD/ADHD aspects would heighten some aspects of Asperger's and reduce others, as well as affecting areas that would not be affected by Asperger's.  I suspect that ADD/ADHD might make socialization even harder for an aspie, because it would be difficult to pay attention to what the other person was doing/saying.

Ok I have ADHD and Asperger's so I know a lot on this subject.

For a start, please read this to get a basic insight into what ADHD is: http://www.addcommunitycenter.com/node/9

Now on to this theory that I've always had but have never published in detail. I think ADHD is an Autistic spectrum disorder. Maybe it is caused by the same gene as Asperger's and is simply a different manifestation due to environmental factors. There is some evidence to support this. Recent genetic studies indicate this and it is alro apparent that ADHD and Asperger's often run in the same families.

The similarities?

1. Sensory problems. In ADHD,  dopamine reputake inhibitors do not function correctly. As a result, that satisfaction fulfilled by normal conditions is not present. The ADHD brain will automatically switch on to every stimulus. That is partly why ADHDers are distractible. In a quiet study room they see the leaves blowing in the wind, the fan turning, the texture of the walls, feel the tag in their underpants, hear the fan and the tinnitus, etc. If I put it that way, the room is pretty distractind! Luckily ADHDers have an abundance of attention and are still able to complete their work.. barely. The work simply isn't stimulating and they tune in to everything. In the end, they have a sensory overload.

2. hyperfocus. Sometimes they are in that quiet room and they aren't working. They are reading their favourite novel, It is so stimulating that their developed abundance of attention ensures that they finish the book without getting up.

3. lack of organisational skills. Unfortunately, in the 8 hours it took to read the book they didn't eat, sleep, feed the pet or do their work.. oops!

4. Obsessive interests. You aspies should know, hyperfocus feels pretty good. It isn't often that you get to be 100% stimulated. This leads to obsession. Instead of doing their maths work they find themselves daydreaming about that book..

5. Procrastination. Work is boring. Why not pick up the sequel? It is far my stimulating.

6. Lack of social skills. Lets face it, their behaviour isn't exactly acceptable to NTs either. They too find it much more interesting to discuss that book than to do a bit of social chit chat. Eventually the find a repulsion to it. Their conversations constantly trampoline back to their select interests.

I could go on. I am trying to start a whole positive ADHD anti-cure type movement. We have an IRC channel called #adhdchat on freenode. Please do drop by!

Oh one more big one I didn't mention is that I think tactile stimulation by Aspies is 'stimming' but in ADHDers it is hyperactivity. Instead of running a tap over their hands or rubbing themselves, they rush from activity to activity. It makes sense, right?

The evidence is all there. I have managed to convince doctors, which isn't too bad considering I am 14.

Hopefully you guys with ADHD join my little community. I hope that one day it will be as strong as AFF and that we will fight along side each other against the negative curebies and the bad publicity.

Now I'm thoroughly confused. I was tagged ADD as a kid, with much wailing and gnashing of teeth involved (by other people, mostly). I just get this great Asperger's diagnosis, and I'm laughing hysterically at those silly people with their silly head-shrinking language filling my head with lies- and now you say there might be something to it? And I'm going to have to take back some juicy insults? Life ain't freakin' fair!

I believe my son has both Asperger's and ADHD.  He is diagnosed with Asperger's and undoubtably has it but he is SOOOOOOO hyper, can't sit still, constantly leaping off the furniture, running into the walls and bouncing off them, acting the clown, pulling monkey faces, nothing satisfies him for long, he is continually seeking stimulation.  He loves rough and tumble play, invades personal space, is loud oppositional and demanding.  He is FULL ON.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him dancing in a cage in nightclubs when he's grown up

Well all the traits you listed in your previous post define me very well.  From your listed criteria, it's conceivable that I might "just" be inattentive ADHD instead.  Your list of similarities between AS/ADHD confuses things for me.  So, I'm not sure I'll join your community, and let me try to explain why...

I'm on AFF because I feel I have Asperger's, and yes my ADHD complicates matters a bit... but still, my greater "difference" is Asperger's.  I have known many folks in my days who had the ADHD diagnosis, but none (to the best of my knowledge) who were aware that they had AS.  I now have this awareness, and I feel my AS is the reason I have so many unusual problems.

About your idea that ADHD is on the autistic spectrum:  All the ADHD kids I knew had social skills and a very strong willingness to socialize (on most occasions.)  I, however, have neither characteristic.  I think there are significant differences between these two conditions.  There are similarities, but I don't like how you seem to have "merged" the two into basically the same thing.