Aspies For Freedom

Full Version: My  two biggest gripes with autism activists.
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dove nested towers Wrote:
I have two really big complaints with the majority of autism activists,the first one being that few,if any,of these people will acknowledge those of us on the more severe end of the spectrum.For all of their talk about an "autism spectrum",I find they can be quite exclusionary.More often,than not they paint all too rosy a picture, and one that is quite misleading.It may be an oversimplification,to say this,but a lot of autism activists,and bloggers,want everybody to believe all autistics are just cute,quirky"aspies" and "auties" (Terms I have come to loathe.),whose every behavior is one to be celebrated.

Far  too little is made about:

*The developmental  delays.I was not toilet trained until I was seven years old.I could not dress myself,until I was about ten,and I was at the "severe" end of the spectrum for problems in motor coordination,and development a MAJOR PROBLEM for me,that I only had to accommodate,and adapt to. Oh,and I also had profoundly delayed puberty.
*The headbanging.
*The  eloping was also a big issue for me,until well into adulthood.I wandered away from my mother.I wandered away from school.I mean actually wandering away from the school property,and walked aimlessly for blocks,or miles.When I was in kindergarten,and first grade,I did this naked.And nobody cared.I had no idea where i was going,or why,sort of like someone with senile dementia.I would eventually come around,with no clue as to how I got where I was.

It was only after megadoses of GABA,and Acetyl L-Carnitine,that this,and a lot of my other more serious neurological aspects of my autism improved.Including improvements in my ability to communicate.

This in addition to all of the usual obsessions with flapping,spinning,jerking stuff up and down,breaking stuff,and setting fires.

Riddle me this,Batman :
WHY IS BEHAVIOR  LIKE THIS SOMETHING TO CELEBRATE???

The answer is it isn't.


Nor is autoimmune disease.The autism activist community largely ignores,what is a major part of life,for me,and others with classic infantile autism.We have become largely forgotten.Severe inflammatory bowel disease,chronic pneumonia, and autoimmune interstitial lung disease,rheumatic heart and joint disease,and recurring meningitis,are some of the fun stuff I have been living with ever since I was a baby.This,to me,should be considered both part of the spectrum,as well as part of the diagnostic criteria for autism,but not be a deciding factor for everyone. But genetics,and family history should be.

But then this might push some "auties" "off the spectrum",and we can't have that can we ?

I was too out of it and unaware of things to be in on the formative years of autism activism.When I started to learn about just who made up the activist community,I saw no real place for me.There was a lot that I was,for lack of a better word, repulsed by.For me,the "it's not a disease,it's a way of life" argument is just as dangerous,and flawed,as the claims of crackpots like DAN!,CAN!,and the "vaccines cause autism" crowd.

If autism activism is ever going to be taken seriously,it needs to undergo some serious self-examination,become more inclusive,and realize that not every aspect of autism is something to celebrate.

These are my goals as an activist,who here is willing to help me ?


I second these. I am sick of seeing people who claim to be advocates for the autistic spectrum making silly remarks that pertain only to themselves, or to a small minority of autistics (much as it is annoying when Schafer makes the claim that only people who can't speak, write, or sign qualify as autistic).

In the gay rights movement, many of the more "normal" appearing advocates tried to distance themselves from the drag queens and the butch lesbians - I see today many autistics who can "pass" will try to distance themselves from autistics who cannot, autistics who usually have much more disability.

While I have never been considered LFA or anything (I don't put much stock into those labels), I was not able to clean up after myself after using the bathroom until maybe age 9, nor could I dress myself until age 6-10. I also remember numerous times I got lost in malls, or even at school, as happened a few times (one of which was a rainy day, and I was wandering around school grounds for over an hour). I have also wandered out the house in the morning a few times (probably would've been more, except I was a late-sleeper). And I had many tantrums, lasting hours upon hours, days upon days. Headbanging was a big problem, as were depression, and later, post-traumatic stress.

So, while I am proud to be autistic and would not want a cure, I would hate for people to think that by this I mean that autism is a wonderful dream everyone should have, or that it is not a disability, or that we are merely "quirky."

I once learned to blow my nose, briefly when I was about 10 after trying very hard, but I can no longer do it. Fixing myself meals, doing laundry, making a phone call, these are all very challenging to me. I also have seizures, which complicate things to a further degree. The thing is, since I had no delay of speech and score well on tests, particularly those of mathematics and writing (reading comprehension is exceedingly difficult for me, however, and I gain points mainly by guessing). Maybe that's why I wasn't diagnosed until age 10, and why I haven't received appropriate speech therapy until ages 17 and 18. I say that I have difficulty doing X, Y, or Z, and I am told outright that "No, you don't have a problem with those things, you're too high-functioning." I wish I could show them all the video Amanda Baggs made to explain the apparent contradictory nature of abilities and disabilities we have as autistic persons.

I agree that our advocacy cannot be effective without solidarity - a solidarity that understands and appreciates the diversity within the own community. After all, if we cannot accept the diversity among autistics, how can we expect NTs to accept the diversity among humanity, to include autistics into that big picture? I personally would feel morally tarnished to advocate such a shallow hypocrisy. I should get on writing that essay I've been meaning to write - that you don't need to be a savant to deserve human respect and services you need.

Hi Dove,
I would say there's really three *main* camps of autism advocates, and two outlying camps, with some people not falling into any group.  The three main camps are:
- The "curebies" as some call them- mostly made up of doctors and parents, especially parents, these people view autism as one big negative, which they seek to cure.  Many, though not all, of them endorse highly experimental treatments and theories of causation, including the idea that MMR causes autism, the theory that allergies cause autism, and sometimes the idea that if you pray, God will deliver your child from the "prison of autism".
- The "Aspie Advocates" as I call them, entirely made up of people with asperger's.  When they talk about autism, they actually mean asperger's.  If they even mention "lower-functioning" autistics, it's to say "We're not like them- they're hopeless and need a cure".  These people's concepts of neurodiversity extends only to people with asperger's, no one else.  Some of them are openly anti-NT, claiming that all NTs are out to get them and that aspies are the currently-oppressed superior race.
- The third, smallest, group is the true Neurodiversity advocate.  They come from all backgrounds- parents, doctors, themselves autistic or ADD or Bipolar, whatever.  They advocate for supports but against a cure, and struggle against the attitudes of both society and other advocates.  They try to bring people together, but so far haven't had much luck.  This seems to be the group you would fall into, yourself.  If you haven't been able to find much of this activism yourself, I suggest you try http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org, http://thiswayoflife.org/blog/, http://www.autism-hub.co.uk/, and http://www.gettingthetruthout.org/ .  With the last one, make sure you read it all the way through- it switches persepctives, to give a better understanding of how society views autism vs. reality.
Finally, the last two outlying groups are the extremists.  On the one side we have autism haters, like John Best Jr.  They literally hate autism and all autistics with a burning and fiery passion.  They're like the autism KKK.  On the other side we have the autism superiorists.  They believe that autistics (usually only aspies, though) are the next step in human evolution and that all NTs need to die out to make way for the new race.  Both groups are utterly wacko and you should do your best to just ignore them.  They're thankfully quite small and don't have a lot of influence.
Oh, and one more thing- if you want to direct future autism research towards better supports, your best bet right now is this:  http://neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/139
The IACC is trying to find out what areas people want research to be devoted to.  The more of us write to say we don't want a cure, and that we do want research into supports and whatnot, the better.
I hate it when people ignore anyone who doesn't have special abilities or savant syndrome in their discussions of why they are proud to be autistic. Sure, there are some common positives, but to me to describe these that you posses as THE REASON why you are proud to be autistic, this implies that those who DON'T possess such abilities have NO reason to be proud - which really is ableist and goes against the idea of neurodiversity, to imply that one must reach a certain status of ability in order to be really, truly a worthwhile person.
Oh my, I don't know if I would have much to contribute in this area, being mild AS (Borderline AS/NT) myself...  it's like, part on the spectrum, part NT.. which do I really belong to?

I don't know if I could truly advocate for all autistics because I'm not familiar with the more difficult traits associated with Kanner's autism, if I am, it is only to a very low intensity.

I prefer to wear an NT mask when I go around, despite sometimes struggling to keep it on.  Does this make me a bad advocate/bad autistic person?  Yes, I am camouflagable, and I like it that way...

Thoughts?
Batman,
You're right that you're probably not representative of many autistics on the spectrum- but then, no individual autistic is.  I bet that you face certain issues that many other autistics do not, but which are shared by a significant number of people who, like you, fall somewhere in the fuzzy zone between NT and AS.  There are actually probably a vast number of people in this area, many of whom have no idea that they are on the spectrum, or that there are others like them.  So perhaps you shouldn't advocate for things more concerned with LFA, except to voice your support, but you can advocate for people like yourself.
I wouldn't say that it makes you a "bad autistic person" for wearing an NT mask; it tends to be easier to get by in society that way, and especially when you have a lot of stress on you, it isn't always possible to decide to take the hard route.
All that anyone can ever do is speak for themselves. In this way, with a diverse group of autists speaking for themselves, and then acknowledging the diversity of the community and the fact that everyone's needs, experiences, and abilities differ, this paves the way for a broader recognition of that diversity - so that maybe one day people will know that people like you exist, and, furthermore, are not 'anomalies' or anything of that sort. It is frustrating to always be put into a box based upon a stranger's cursory glances and first impressions.

No one should feel they have to fit the profile of someone "typically HFA" or "typically LFA" - these things are really just constructions about common perceptions - some of which are accurate, some of which are absurd, and most of which are distortions about real things (the kind of distortion an outside observer of an autist is likely to form).

And I would not condemn someone because they can/will try to pass. If I were in an environment any less positive (say, back to elementary or middle school), and I had the capability, I would surely be trying as hard as possible to pass, as this is the reality of the situation for most autistic people living in an intolerant and misunderstanding society. I don't think I noticed myself rocking until 7th grade world history, when I heard the bullies specifically mocking me by imitation. If I were still in that environment, and had the ability, I would surely suppress myself from stimming, as I had done, to varying degrees of success, during elementary school.
I agree with the OP.

This is more or less exactly my viewpoint.

earthmonkey Wrote:
...I see today many autistics who can "pass" will try to distance themselves from autistics who cannot, autistics who usually have much more disability.

I'm not sure I agree with you.

I'm very high functioning, but finding out about my autism has made me more appreciative of people at the other end of the spectrum.

I'm a thirty something year old woman, of child bearing age, and it's made me think about the issue of eugenics and quality of life.

Maybe ten years ago, if I became pregnant, I would have automatically asked for a whole raft of tests and automatically assumed that a foetus with a disability would result in a terminated pregnancy.

I don't think the higher functioning autistics are necessarily excluding lower functioning autistics, in fact, if anything, it's made my personal attitude more inclusionary.  Before learning so much about the autistic spectrum, I would have thought of 'classical' low functioning autistics as 'the Other', whereas I now see them as people who are further along the same spectrum as me, just as I see me and other high functioning autistics as being further along the same but wider spectrum that extends to NTs.  It's made me realise much more keenly how much a part of humanity we all are.

Conversely, I don't think the 'support groups' for lower functioning autistics are like that at all.  I think the parent and family groups and the wider medical profession often see them as a burden, and the whole 'curebie' thing, to me just smacks of eugenics.

If you're trying to say it's non-autistics who are more supportive, I believe you're wrong.  Non-autistics tend to want to wire autistics off the face of the earth.  Other autistics and Aspies tend to think that's wrong, what's needed isn't elimination but understanding and acceptance.

Ellen, it worries me a little that you have so much emotionally invested in your daughter becoming a "success" in life. It depends on what you define as "success". She might not be able to leave home for some years and might not marry and have children or a high flying career.

But if you mean "success" in the sense of being a well-adjusted and generally happy person, that's a far more realistic goal to work towards.

It's a good idea to be careful about academic results and university courses. Some of us might have done reasonably well academically but found the courses we could have qualified for too daunting and thus end up with "lower level" jobs. This isn't the disgrace that some people think it is. It isn't a waste if we do something we really enjoy even if the pay or prestige isn't great.

I'd also be very careful not to let your daughter see the weight of expectations upon her as she would easily feel a failure if she can't meet up to them.

EnglishLulu Wrote:

earthmonkey Wrote:
...I see today many autistics who can "pass" will try to distance themselves from autistics who cannot, autistics who usually have much more disability.

I'm not sure I agree with you.

I'm very high functioning, but finding out about my autism has made me more appreciative of people at the other end of the spectrum.


Likewise with me. In my post, I was referring to the many people I've seen who pass and try to distance themselves from people who can't. Of course, by "see" I mean examples cited from people on the Internet, and I in no way would assume them to be the majority.

While currently, I don't think I could pass (in many situations, anyway), there was a time that I could pass, and I have gone through a distancing phase, as well as my current state of decreased prejudices. I was referring to the people along the lines of logicalconclusion (though I don't personally know if he can pass, but he definitely and clearly expresses his desire for distancing).

Um, I hope this won't come across the wrong way but I can't understand much of the issues such as delayed toilet training, long tantrums etc because I never had those but I do understand other things such as getting very depressed once I knew I was "different" and by implication somehow "defective", being very frustrated in knowing something was wrong but not being able to convince other people of the fact, not being able to do things others took for granted such as making a "simple" phone call (few phone calls are simple).

The point I am trying to make is there is just about as much of a divide being HFA/Borderline aspies and LFA as there would be between NTs and say, moderate functioning aspies. It does NOT mean I think I am superior in some way to people with LFA but I can see how easy it would be to fall into that trap.

I know I have impaired theory of mind but don't know how to "fix" it if indeed it is fixable. Due to sensory issues with smell and hearing and fear of germs, I also have problems with bathroom messes and noisy tantrums. It doesn't mean I purposely try to be horrible about it but it's hard to get detached and not think the first is really disgusting and the second, aggravating. It's not meant to be personal but no doubt would come across that way.

I don't think we can afford to turn our backs on the understanding NTs who could help us in our cause or causes.

Luai_lashire Wrote:
Hi Dove,
I would say there's really three *main* camps of autism advocates, and two outlying camps, with some people not falling into any group.��The three main camps are:
- The "curebies" as some call them- mostly made up of doctors and parents, especially parents, these people view autism as one big negative, which they seek to cure.��Many, though not all, of them endorse highly experimental treatments and theories of causation, including the idea that MMR causes autism, the theory that allergies cause autism, and sometimes the idea that if you pray, God will deliver your child from the "prison of autism".
- The "Aspie Advocates" as I call them, entirely made up of people with asperger's.��When they talk about autism, they actually mean asperger's.��If they even mention "lower-functioning" autistics, it's to say "We're not like them- they're hopeless and need a cure".��These people's concepts of neurodiversity extends only to people with asperger's, no one else.��Some of them are openly anti-NT, claiming that all NTs are out to get them and that aspies are the currently-oppressed superior race.
- The third, smallest, group is the true Neurodiversity advocate.��They come from all backgrounds- parents, doctors, themselves autistic or ADD or Bipolar, whatever.��They advocate for supports but against a cure, and struggle against the attitudes of both society and other advocates.��They try to bring people together, but so far haven't had much luck.��This seems to be the group you would fall into, yourself.��If you haven't been able to find much of this activism yourself, I suggest you try http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org, http://thiswayoflife.org/blog/, http://www.autism-hub.co.uk/, and http://www.gettingthetruthout.org/ .��With the last one, make sure you read it all the way through- it switches persepctives, to give a better understanding of how society views autism vs. reality.
Finally, the last two outlying groups are the extremists.��On the one side we have autism haters, like John Best Jr.��They literally hate autism and all autistics with a burning and fiery passion.��They're like the autism KKK.��On the other side we have the autism superiorists.��They believe that autistics (usually only aspies, though) are the next step in human evolution and that all NTs need to die out to make way for the new race.��Both groups are utterly wacko and you should do your best to just ignore them.��They're thankfully quite small and don't have a lot of influence.


Does this sound like the X-Men 3 movie to you?

Nominalist Wrote:

Luai_lashire Wrote:
I would say there's really three *main* camps of autism advocates, and two outlying camps, with some people not falling into any group.


Perhaps this other "camp" would fall into one of those you mentioned. I am not sure. However, there are also those, like myself, who favor, first and foremost, an acceptance of neurodiversity, but second, more of an advocacy of self-determination (or as much as possible) than being specifically anti-cure or pro-cure. I personally would never want to be "cured," though I would have felt differently as a child, but I also want to respect the rights of those who believe differently.


Hello Professor.  I have my Master's in Sociology but I make my living in Web design.  Methinks I was unable to break into applied research despite three dozen interviews as a result of Asperger.  The state of Maryland retrained me as a computer programmer.  My younger brother already helped me learn.  He has 9 more years experience than I do.

A True Monotheist Wrote:
B"H

I encourage readers of this thread to participate in my poll.  At some point, maybe I'll tell the story of my own complex history, where I fit on the Spectrum, and how it is that I am not sure about how HFA/LFA fit me.  

Is there a combination of LFA and Neuro-typical that allows someone to make eye contact, shake hands, but then which allows other psychological forces to play out?  Are all Aspies the same?


People are individuals - it's possible to have some traits and not others, No aspies aren't all the same. Who were are comes down to personality, age, the culture we grew up in - although there are typical traits associated with AS.

I would be interested to hear your story, your history and where you fit on the spectrum.

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