Aspies For Freedom

Firstly can I say that this whole case has sickened me to my stomach.  Who does her "keeper" think he is?  If he wants rid of her can't he divorce her does he have to murder her?

What I would really LOVE is that Terri managed to pull through without her feeding tube, make a full recovery and sue the *** off the legal system that is putting her through this hell.  Nice thought!

I've got to stop reading this thread every time I do I GET ANGRY.  I am sickened and upset that its gone on this long. Leave her alone, get on with your life with your new woman and your kids.  I asume the kids are with Terry??  If so what do they think or are they too young?  Why can't he just back off and leave her alone?? :evil:   Sorry folks gettng cross again. I'm leaving this one for now cant take the evil in this man.

This is a sad day indeed for all that could be considered inconvenient to the general populace.  

Terri Schiavo's parents have tried every available avenue to keep their daughter alive but to no avail.  Even though Terri is not a Terminal Patient, but is quite healthy and could live out the rest of her natural life with just minor accommodations such as  someone to feed her, she has been sentenced to death.

You may think that Congress, Florida's Governor and the US President was meddling in the private affairs of a citizen by trying to keep Terri alive because she did not leave written instructions in case of an accident that might immobilize her.  What I see though, is a group of dedicated people trying to save the life of someone that cannot speak for themselves.  The other side of the coin is that someone wants her to die because she is considered to be inconvenient and appears to have no quality of life in the eyes of another select group.

If you ask me the group that wishes to destroy a life is more of a concern than the group that wishes to keep a person alive, even though they cannot fend for themselves.  You may have been deceived into thinking that this situation will only be a private matter between this family and their lawyers, but this is not true.  This is History in the making which someday, could turn on those of us in the autistic community.

After this is done, and Terri has passed away - from having food and water taken from her - anyone that could be considered a burden to their family or to society could be exterminated, especially if their "quality of life" is questioned.  These could be perfectly healthy human beings  that are just incapable of feeding themselves or maybe do not communicate with others and seem to "not be aware of" their surroundings.  Regardless of whether they are healthy or not, these humans may have food and water or medications that keep them healthy (such as insulin or seizure medications) withheld from them.  

One case in which a man was dependant on seizure medication to function well was in the paper about a year ago.  This gentleman was on Medicaid and when budget cuts kept him from being able to afford his medication, everything went downhill.  He could not work without the medication so seizures came more and more frequent.  One seizure put him in the hospital.  It was so severe that he was put on a respirator.  Since he did not have insurance, or anyone to fight for his right to live, they decided to take him off the respirator.  He died a few days later.

This was a man that was fine as long as he was able to take medication for his condition.  Terri is a healthy person that cannot walk or talk or feed herself without assistance.  She is totally dependant on others to care for her and HAS people that have offered to do this….but the true deceivers with a hidden political agenda (that accuse others of having a political motive) have won the right in a US court of Law to MURDER.  I wonder who will be next?

I also ask that you please don't make the mistake of thinking me so feeble-minded or incompetent as to be so easily persuaded by other people's opinions or beliefs.  You do not know me well enough to know that I make my own decisions about what I believe and could not give a Rat's @$$ about other peoples speculations (when deciding what I think is the truth).   Although I do like to hear other opinions, their opinions are not a determining factor in what I believe.  As for "reducing credibility" in your eyes or anyone else's eyes, I have never given a Rat's @$$  about peoples opinions of me, either. (at least this, you could have deduced from the posts I have written on this forum.)


The bottom line is, no matter what anyone thinks, no one knows my mind any more than they know the mind of Terri Schiavo.


Amy wrote:

Amy, from what I have noticed in my life, NT's especially, are very worried/concerned about their credibility in the social world.  They worry about their social credibility, their fashion credibility, their intellectual credibility and whatever else they might say or do that may cause others to think badly of them.  You can see why this does not make sense to most aspies because (thank goodness) we naturally do not worry about such things.  The only time we do think about such standards, is when someone tries to force us to.

MrCoffee wrote:

MrCoffee, this is already being done to my sons' grandfather (their father's father).  My sons' grandfather has been dx'd with Alzeimer's (and, I believe is an undiagnosed Aspie) that broke his hip two years ago at home.  He was in the hospital for a short time to mend but was sent to a nursing home after a while because his wife of 55 years did not want him to come home to recuperate (for whatever her reasons were).  After having trouble making it to the bathroom unassisted because of understaffing in this nursing home, a catheder (sp?) tube was inserted.  After at least three back-up problems, one that almost killed him happened, surgery was necessary (I do not have the info of why, only that he almost died from the last "back-up of urine).  He was sent to another home and was given drugs to "keep him from getting up in the middle of the night" - this, was also done because of understaffing - there was no one that could (or cared to) periodically check on him during the night.

The drugs (way too much for a man that never took medication and an aspie to boot) made the poor guy very dreamy and non-connected.  He does not get any therapy to help him to walk again....no excuse I can think of for this other than they felt it would be senseless for an older person with Alzeimer's, I mean after all they'd just have to chase him down the halls or something.  He cannot walk now but is in a wheelchair for mobility.

He was not being fed either and his weight was getting dangerously low.  Their excuse was, when they would bring food into the room he wouldn't touch it, so instead of trying to help him feed himself, which is very time consuming, they asked him, "Aren't you Hungry?"  When he gave no reply, they said, "Okay, I guess you aren't hungry" and took the tray away.  This went on for a while until the rest of the family asked about his weight loss.

At that point, his body weight had become so low that the doctors recommended a feeding tube be inserted.  The family said yes but the wife that did not have to work a day in her life because this man took care of her financially for 50+ years, in sickness and in health....said no.  He had become an inconvenience to her and as she put it, "I still have my own life to live."

The family agreed that yes, she does have her life to live and so it was asked if another family member could bring him home and care for him.  She will not allow this.  So, to make a long story short we all try to help him feed himself which I've noticed, he indeed wants to eat but has a hard time remembering to swallow his food like many Alzeimer patients do.  His life is not the same as it was when my kids were young boys but it is a life and he is still a valuble member of the family.  I wish he was allowed to live outside of a nursing home though.  If we did not come in to feed him his meals, he would surely be starved to death, too for lack of interest in this wonderful person.  I am very sure he isn't the only person being treated like this, too.

Like I have said in another post, I am broken hearted.  I guess I haven't noticed just how bad things have been, lately.  The case concerning Terri Schiavo is just one part of the reason I am brokenhearted, though.  

What I have seen in just this post alone has torn me up inside.  I have seen autistics in this forum treating each other with the same contempt that the world has always shown to us.  Some have said, because my views and beliefs are not the same as theirs, that someone else must have persuaded me or made me believe the way I do, as if I do not have a perfectly good mind of my own. About others, they accuse them of being put up to actions or of being brainwashed.  Still others have been scorned for thinking of other human beings, with lesser capabilities, as meatbags only good for spare parts.  

Do you not realize those are the very things some neurotypicals think of us?  Maybe it is that you are young and bitter or old and bitter or just possibly trying to "get a rise" out of someone, I cannot tell.  I have tried to understand what has been going on in this post but cannot understand the underlying sound of hatred for anything different from what is considered the norm.  

During this whole ordeal with the Schiavo case, a co-worker (NT) said this to me, "Poor thing, they should just let her die.  No one with a disability should even be allowed to live."  When I asked them if autistics would be included in their "grouping" of people that should die, they said, "Definitely, yes.  They suffer a lot more sometimes because they aren't capable of living a full and successful life and they know they cannot."  
:-(
So many people with eyes, and yet are so blind to what others have to teach them.  I worked with small children and teens that were considered "severely ***" for more than a decade.
These young people had various challenges, some had constant seizures, others were probably "classic" autistic and were thought incapable of speech or learning.  I worked with children that had cerebral palsy and others that had been severely burned in fires.  One young person, doctors told the parents would never learn to stand or walk because of the deformities of his hips and legs.....he not only learned to walk, but to run.  Another boy was considered mentally profoundly handicapped and a classic case of autism.  They felt as if he would never learn, much less to speak to people but they were wrong about him, too.

I have been in the company of older people, too.  Those that could talk to me about their past experiences, those that could move about and talk very little and those who could no longer talk of things but were happy to have my hand to hold.

The point I am trying to make is this.  Each human being has something to teach us, about ourselves and about life no matter their age, their appearance or physical & mental capabilities, there is some knowledge that person can give to us.  You have to see their value, though.  You have to look at them with respect.   I do know this;  I have learned more from the children I worked with, than anything I could have taught to them.  

I don't really care what side of this tragic battle you are on, between  Terri's husband and her parents, (or between pro-life and pro-assisted suicide) in the long run, life will go on regardless of the outcome.  What really concerns me is how very little some autistics value the lives of other human beings, others that may be quite different from themselves but part of the human race just the same.  If you cannot value the life of another human being, how can you expect others to value your life?

I am sure this post will receive it's share of snide remarks and innuendoes but, I don't care. I think it needed to be said, just the same.

Monastic, I completely agree with you.

What they are doing to Terri Schiavo is very wrong.  I was reading  something anbuend wrote in another forum and it expresses my feelings about Terri as well:

dont want to get into a debate here but lethal injection is far from painless.

These are a few more reports on Terri Schiavo:

Dr. George McClane is the Director of the Forensic Medical Unit (FMU) at the city of San Diego Department of Family Justice Center. The FMU documents injuries sustained by living victims as the result of domestic violence. Dr. McClane is also a board-certified Emergency Physician and a diplomate National Board of Medical Examiners. Furthermore, even more relevant to Terri and Michael Schiavo, Dr. McClane has published works reviewing attempted strangulation in hundreds of cases. Crystal Clear he knows his stuff. I urge you to go read his full curriculum vitae and statement for yourself.
In his affidavit Dr. McClane attests:
The circumstances surrounding her initial anoxic episode and subsequent neurological status are consistent with a victim who has been strangled.

A "heart attack" precipitated by severe metabolic disease secondary to an eating disorder is inconsistent.

Such a severly compromised heart would never continue to pump effectively for 15 more years.
...It is critical that Terri Schiavo's case be considered as possible attempted homocide

Barbara Weller, Esq., is putting her entire professional reputation as an officer of the court on the line. If she is not telling the truth she would not only be found guilty of perjury, she would sacrifice her career by being disbarred.
DECLARATION OF BARBARA J. WELLER
STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF PINELLAS )
I, BARBARA WELLER, Attorney for Respondents in the above-styled case, hereby declare under penalty of perjury:
I visited with Terri at various times during the day on March 18, 2005, the day her feeding tube was removed.
During the morning I was in the room with Terri and various members of her family. Terri was in good spirits that morning. The mood in her room was jovial, particularly around noontime, as we knew Congressional attorneys were on the scene and many were working hard to save Terri's life. For most of that time, I was visiting and talking with Terri along with Terri's sister Suzanne Vitadamo, Suzanne's husband, and Terri's aunt, who was visiting from New York to help provide support for the family. A female Pinellas Park police office was stationed at the door outside Terri's room.
Terri was sitting up in her lounge chair, dressed and looking alert and well. Her feeding tube had been plugged in around 11 a.m. and we all felt good that she was still being fed. Suzanne and I were talking, joking, and laughing with Terri, telling her she was going to go to Washington D.C. to testify before Congress, which meant that finally Terri's husband Michael would be required to fix her wheelchair. After that Suzanne could take Terri to the mall shopping and could wheel her outdoors every day to feel the wind and sunshine on her face, something she has not been able to do for more than five years.
At one point, I noticed Terri's window blinds were pulled down. I went to the window to raise them so Terri could look at the beautiful garden outside her window and see the sun after several days of rain. As sunlight came into the room, Terri's eyes widened and she was obviously very pleased.
Suzanne and I continued to talk and joke with Terri for probably an hour or more. At one point Suzanne called Terri the bionic woman and I heard Terri laugh out loud heartily. She laughed so hard that for the first time I noticed the dimples in her cheeks.
The most dramatic event of this visit happened at one point when I was sitting on Terri's bed next to Suzanne. Terri was sitting in her lounge chair and her aunt was standing at the foot of the chair. I stood up and learned over Terri. I took her arms in both of my hands. I said to her, "Terri if you could only say 'I want to live' this whole thing could be over today." I begged her to try very hard to say, "I want to live." To my enormous shock and surprise, Terri's eyes opened wide, she looked me square in the face, and with a look of great concentration, she said, "Ahhhhhhh." Then, seeming to summon up all the strength she had, she virtually screamed, "Waaaaaaaa." She yelled so loudly that Michael Vitadamo, Suzanne's husband, and the female police officer who were then standing together outside Terri's door, clearly heard her. At that point, Terri had a look of anguish on her face that I had never seen before and she seemed to be struggling hard, but was unable to complete the sentence. She became very frustrated and began to cry. I was horrified that I was obviously causing Terri so much anguish. Suzanne and I began to stroke Terri's face and hair to comfort her. I told Terri I was very sorry. It had not been my intention to upset her so much. Suzanne and I assured Terri that her efforts were much appreciated and that she did not need to try to say anything more. I promised Terri I would tell the world that she had tried to say, "I want to live."
Suzanne and I continued to visit and talk with Terri, along with other family members who came and went in the room, until about 2:00 p.m. when we were all told to leave after Judge Greer denied yet another motion for stay and ordered the removal of the feeding tube to proceed. As we left the room, the female police officer outside the door was valiantly attempting to keep from crying.
About four in the afternoon, several hours after the feeding tube was removed, I returned to Terri's room. By that time she was alone except for a male police officer now standing inside the door. When I entered the room and began to speak to her, Terri started to cry and tried to speak to me immediately. It was one of the most helpless feelings I have ever had. Terri was looking very melancholy at that point and I had the sense she was very upset that we had told her things were going to get better, but instead, they were obviously getting worse. I had previously had the same feeling when my own daughter was a baby who was hospitalized and was crying and looking to me to rescue her from her hospital crib, something I could not do. While I was in the room with Terri for the next half hour or so, several other friends came to visit and I did a few press interviews sitting right next to Terri. I again raised her window shade, which had again been pulled down, so Terri could at least see the garden and the sunshine from her lounge chair. I also turned the radio on in her room before I left so that when she was alone, she would at least have some music for comfort.
Just before I left the room, I leaned over Terri and spoke right into her ear. I told her I was very sorry I had not been able to stop the feeding tube from being taken out and I was very sorry I had to leave her alone. But I reminded her that Jesus would stay right by her side even when no one else was there with her. When I mentioned Jesus' Name, Terri again laughed out loud. She became very agitated and began loudly trying to speak to me again. As Terri continued to laugh and try to speak, I quietly prayed in her ear, kissed her, placed her in Jesus' care, and left the room.
FURTHER YOUR DECLARANT SAYETH NOT.
I hereby declare, under penalty of perjury, that the foregoing is true and accurate to the best of my knowledge and belief. Executed this 22nd day of March, 2005, at Seminole, Florida.
BARBARA J. WELLER
Sworn to and subscribed before me this 25nd day of March, 2005.

Terri Schiavo is beginning to die, her eyes sinking into her skull, her skin flaking, her tongue drying out.  David Gibbs III, who represents the Schindlers, said "Terri Schiavo will pass the point that she will be able to recover over this Easter weekend." Family supporters also said Terri's breathing has become increasingly labored.
According to Dr. Lieberman, at UCLA Medical Center, Terri will suffer tremendously. He said: "When the body is starved it has to 'eat itself' in order to provide energy to continue vital functions. Weight loss can reach 50%, meaning Terri will become a living skeleton. Eventually, her heart and lungs will fail – unless she is first overcome by infection due to compromised immunity. Total starvation is generally fatal in 8-12 weeks. By denying Terri water as well, she would die sooner – perhaps within 2 weeks, after anxiety, seizures, falling blood pressure, confusion and coma. Two weeks is a long time to suffer."

Terri Schiavo's body is physically healthy, so death process is slower.

Another family attorney said hospice workers began giving her morphine.
<Given morphine? For the pain she doesn't have or to keep her quiet and not crying out because of the pain she doesn't feel?>
But Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, denied reports by the parents' attorneys that her tongue and eyes were bleeding, wracked by dehydration.  <of course he says this, so as to not appear to be the monster he is>"She is resting comfortably," Felos said Saturday. "Her breathing does not appear to be shallow."
Doctors have said she would probably die within a week or two of her feeding tube being pulled, which was done last Friday.
Meanwhile, another attorney for the Schindlers, Barbara Weller, said Terri cried when her mother hugged her Saturday night. "She knows what's going on. She was trying to vocalize something with Mary."

I have long suspected that Michael Schiavo's zeal in "granting his dear wife's wishes" is in fact a coverup of foul play by him. Perhaps he denied therapy because he didn't her able to tell the truth.

          The other grossout is to watch all of the courts and officials pussyfoot about federal rights, state's rights and other *** while a human's life is at stake..

         I live in a nation that cares about the legality of everything and the morality of nothing. What a pathetic, sorry bunch of self-indulgent dirtbags the USA has become.

                                     Jerry Newport

Not really.  The neurological systems continue to transmit electrical activity even when there is no brain function.  Some portions of the reflex system are believed to be located outside of the brain.  For example, tests have shown that when a stimulation is applied to a nerve in the leg the reflex action happens before the original pain signal even has time to reach the brain.  Any mortician will also tell you that dead bodies occasionally move their muscles as dying nerves emit stray electrical signals.

The Wikipedia is not neutral, anyone can edit it to say whatever they want.

Let's see, I kind of picture that conversation going something like this:

Michael
"If you give up your court case, fighting for Terri's Right to Live so that I can continue my plan of killing my wife/your daughter, I will give all of the rest of the money that's left for Terri's care (most of it being already spent on lawyers & court fees to kill her) - I'll give it all to charity....but of course you know, that doesn't mean the money I'll get from life insurance policies and from movie and book rights."

The Schindlers
"No!  We will never give  up fighting for Terri's Right To Live!"

But of course, the quote (from the wiki) says it so much more eloquently.

Yes, Noetic, I agree with you on this.