In a total disregard for the rights of the disabled, Judge Greer ordered the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube. From what I see in the mainstream news media, nobody cares. What is left of her will be immediately cremated, as to her "owner", Michael Schiavo's wishes. I am concerned at this point, in regards to any rights that people with disabilities have. If there is any commentary, it is welcome here. Any support on Terri's behalf is appreciated.
MrCoffee
I just hope that somebody is going to stop it. And that judge should be shot (sorry, but I think some people are too evil to be alllowed to live). Well, I don't really mean that in the literal sense. But somebody with a heart of stone shouldn't be a judge, making life and death decisions at any rate.
I have to agree about the judge too. In all honestly, this doesn't just affect Terri. It affects every last one of us, especially those who are considered as "unable to manage their own affairs". There are just no protections for those individuals. One day, someone in that situation can be in perfect health, and able to express their wishes to live. Yet, they could have all food and liquids withheld simply because a legal guardian said so. And I do mean, placed under restraints and watched by a police man to make sure they "don't do something stupid" and that "nobody tries to aid them". The Nazis practiced something very similar to this with their T-4 program, and the World is headed that direction.
Unless, of course, there was enough opposition to put a stop to this madness and protect those who can't speak for themselves. It is too bad that there isn't rioting and looting on Florida's streets, but I honestly feel that the movie-star healthy majority doesn't even care. I guess it would be a whole different ballgame if she were a minority, wouldn't you think?
MrCoffee
Well, for now she is saved again. President Bush actually came back from his vacation to sign a bill to put her feeding tube back in, allowing her parents time to go to a higher court.
Her so-called husband actually said that it is a sad day, that she wouldn't want to live like that, and people should be rioting about her not being allowed to die! Oh, please. How many people do you think would actually agree with him? I think it would be a very small minority (at least I hope so).
That is a good question, cleankittycat. I think some of the reasoning behind this, though, is Michael's principles. And I honestly do believe that he would kill one of his own kids if they were diagnosed with any type of severe disability. I just can't imagine what would happen if he had a kid with autism, who was non-verbal. You can very well bet the child would die. Michael Schiavo... That man is a real monster.
MrCoffee
Lili Marlene, I have no doubt that it could happen! My husband is already saying I am mentally ill, and that AS is a mental illness. Your scenario could easily build on that.
The following is what I just found when going online, about Terri Shiavo:
Judge refuses to order Schiavo's tube reinserted
CTV.ca News Staff
A federal judge has rejected an emergency request from the parents of Terri Schiavo to have their daughter's feeding tube reinserted.
U.S. District Judge James Whittemore heard the request on Monday from Bob and Mary Schindler, who's brain-damaged daughter had her feeding tube removed on Friday under court order.
According to a report by The Associated Press, the judge said the woman's parents had not established a "substantial likelihood of success" at trial based on their arguments.
The family is expected to appeal the ruling with the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta.
Tuesday's ruling comes after U.S. President George Bush and Congress rushed through a bill allowing Schiavo's parents the right to pursue the case in federal court.
Attorneys for Schiavo's parents argued Monday that removing her feeding tube violated her rights and her religion.
However, a lawyer for her husband, George Felos, said that keeping Terri Schiavo alive also violated her rights.
This is just the latest in a series of legal battles between Schiavo's husband, Michael, and her parents. Her husband says she wouldn't want to live like this, while her family says she can be rehabilitated.
Tom Broderson, a Schindler family friend and advocate, told CTV's Canada AM on Tuesday that he is "profoundly saddened" by Tuesday's ruling. He insists that Terri is responsive and shouldn't be allowed to die.
"I know that she is responsive. I know that she loves her family. She responds very warmly to her family and a wide variety of other stimuli."
He said that Terri responds to music, and insists that with a little bit of prompting, she is able to hold a note. Broderson also claims that she whispered the word "no" twice in response to questions from him.
Schiavo, 41, has been in a persistent vegetative state since 1990. She had suffered from an eating disorder. Complications from that condition caused her heart to stop beating, depriving her brain of oxygen.
Now that her feeding tube has been removed, doctors say Schiavo can only survive between seven and 14 days.
They insist on making sure that EVERY DAY they state that doctors say that she is in a vegetative state! Which of course will stop people from getting upset about this.
Noetic, the parents would take her home to look after her, if her husband would let them. He forces her to be where she is. And she is NOT in a vegetative state at all, it's a lie that her husband has perpetuated. She is very aware of her surroundings.
I agree that it would have been better if she would have died 15 years ago. But can you imagine being killed by starvation and dehydration? Have you ever tried fasting? I have, and it feels terrible (and of course, you drink lots of water). Have you ever tried not drinking anything for just one day? I get thirsty and my mouth going dry after less than a day. I can't imagine what it would be like to die the way she is supposed to die. It is very wrong.
Plus, the reason that she has a feeding tube is not that she couldn't learn to eat. The reason is that her husband has total control over who cares for her, and how. He refuses to let her have the necessary therapy to learn to eat again. Many people who know her feel that it would be possible.
So Noetic, are you a part of the Neo Nazi revolution? One of their members just shot up 10 kids in Northern Minnesota. With some of the ideas expressed in your posts, it sounds like you would be a good match for their cause. If you're in the United States, why don't you just get out of the country?
MrCoffee
There is one person responsible for Terri's condition, actually three of them. Michael Schiavo, George Felos, and Judge Greer. Actually, it's a totally out of control court system. All of these individuals should be sued until they have NOTHING left. No matter what anybody else thinks, I will always side with the presumption of life. Every life has value, regardless of what someone else's opinion may be.
As for the Nazis. They had a profound belief that anybody with a disability should at least be taken out and shot. But they were much worse, they used chemical weapons on them (lethal injections and gas) and starved them to death. Terri Schiavo, unfortunately, is a victem of the latter method.
Michael Schiavo and George Felos: You can sue me for all I care. But your friends at the ACLU won't back you up because I have a right to free speech. Sorry, I won't keep my mouth shut on this.
MrCoffee
This is a sad day indeed for all that could be considered inconvenient to the general populace.
Terri Schiavo's parents have tried every available avenue to keep their daughter alive but to no avail. Even though Terri is not a Terminal Patient, but is quite healthy and could live out the rest of her natural life with just minor accommodations such as someone to feed her, she has been sentenced to death.
You may think that Congress, Florida's Governor and the US President was meddling in the private affairs of a citizen by trying to keep Terri alive because she did not leave written instructions in case of an accident that might immobilize her. What I see though, is a group of dedicated people trying to save the life of someone that cannot speak for themselves. The other side of the coin is that someone wants her to die because she is considered to be inconvenient and appears to have no quality of life in the eyes of another select group.
If you ask me the group that wishes to destroy a life is more of a concern than the group that wishes to keep a person alive, even though they cannot fend for themselves. You may have been deceived into thinking that this situation will only be a private matter between this family and their lawyers, but this is not true. This is History in the making which someday, could turn on those of us in the autistic community.
After this is done, and Terri has passed away - from having food and water taken from her - anyone that could be considered a burden to their family or to society could be exterminated, especially if their "quality of life" is questioned. These could be perfectly healthy human beings that are just incapable of feeding themselves or maybe do not communicate with others and seem to "not be aware of" their surroundings. Regardless of whether they are healthy or not, these humans may have food and water or medications that keep them healthy (such as insulin or seizure medications) withheld from them.
One case in which a man was dependant on seizure medication to function well was in the paper about a year ago. This gentleman was on Medicaid and when budget cuts kept him from being able to afford his medication, everything went downhill. He could not work without the medication so seizures came more and more frequent. One seizure put him in the hospital. It was so severe that he was put on a respirator. Since he did not have insurance, or anyone to fight for his right to live, they decided to take him off the respirator. He died a few days later.
This was a man that was fine as long as he was able to take medication for his condition. Terri is a healthy person that cannot walk or talk or feed herself without assistance. She is totally dependant on others to care for her and HAS people that have offered to do this….but the true deceivers with a hidden political agenda (that accuse others of having a political motive) have won the right in a US court of Law to MURDER. I wonder who will be next?
That is EXACTLY the point that I have been trying to get across to everybody. And Terri's chances are getting more slim as each day passes. After Terri, I am sure people with Alzeimer's will be next, and then it will continue to go on and on. Eventually, I am sure they'll consider people with autism who are non-verbal as "having a less desirable quality of life" and will exterminate them as well. It's looking bad for all of us.
MrCoffee
I guess that's part of why I have a directive on my own web site. I am also not married. It is very difficult for me to have any compassion for someone who might possibly make a decision on whether I live or die. But let me tell you, I have set a directive that I not be denied ANY medical intervention in a situation where my life might be at stake. I owe this to the whole community of disabled persons. Some folks might hate me for my position, but that's perfectly OK with me. The way I view it, is I would be fighting for a cause: the right to life for all those who are innocent and are not able to speak for themselves. As you may guess, I am also against abortion.
Speaking of abortion. An abortion doctor was shot several times by an assailant. The offender got the death penalty, and was eventually executed. I honestly feel that he should not have been given the death penalty, because the person he killed had killed many more people. Perhaps that individual should have gotten off on self defense, as he was protecting other people in my opinion. Indeed, I do take a hard line stance against euthanasia of any type, regardless of the circumstance.
MrCoffee
My grand motehr also was Alzheimers, she died beofre I ever really got to know her.
Euthanasia.... Whoooeee thats a tricky one... definately not in cases where higher brain function perisists or could potentilly recvoer, but in cases where it is a meical certainty that no cognitive function will return, i.e. he goen adn he aint coming back, if you ask me the poor fellow's already dead. all youve got left is a sack of meat that could be put to good use, if the meatsack in question has previously indicated that he/she wouldnt mind being used for spare parts. I know I would rather be used for spare parts if I were in that situation. otehrwise I would just be a lingering drain on the emotional and financial resources of everyone I care about, when bits of whats left of me could save several people's lives... mysanthropic as I may be I am not so disinterested in human life as to see no value in that. Im rambling... Anyhoiw thats how I feel about that. brain-dead sacks of meat should be cannibalized for spare parts, anyone with higher cognitive function intact gets to keep frenching the tube.
Oh, and the same applies to people who dont think yet as well as those who are done with it (to the extent that your average human really thinks anyway. a fetus that hasnt developed higher cognitive function rates no higher on my kill/dont kill scale than a certified vegetable. When I say I disaprove of systematic efforts to abort ASD pregnancies, I say that because its a bad idea from a genetic standpoint, rather than a moral standpoint. Same goes there as with a PVS case, if there are any bits of meat that can be used for something, use 'em. We have to many people as it is anyway.
Well, looks like we have ourselves a poster boy for the pro-Cure Autism Now and Right This Minute movement. I am pretty sure that we can have all of us and people like us eliminated if we just stay on track with our abortions after genetic testing, right? Have you ever though of working for C.A.N.? Or, is that where your last paycheck came from?
MrCoffee
Perhaps that individual should have gotten off on self defense, as he was protecting other people in my opinion.
So if you shot a cop in cold blood it could be claimed as self-defense because the cop will kill more people in his lifetime than the cop killer? Yeah, right :roll:
Unless the assailant was planning on being born again and then aborted it can't be called self-defense. And since that is highly unlikely it's just plain old murder. Unless you are saying that some murders are less of a murder than other murders as long as it fits your ideals?
You do have a point, yes it's murder. Ok, so he was guilty of that. However, I still don't think he should have recieved the death penalty. I think a 15 year maximum on man slaughter (involuntary) would have been more fitting. He only killed an abortion doctor. He didn't kill a kid, and he didn't kill a cop. He also wasn't dealing dope or robbing a place with the need to eliminate a witness. Bioethicist and abortion doctors are expendable in my opinion.
MrCoffee
Greer issued an emergency order Wednesday to keep the Department of Children & Families from reconnecting the tube. On Thursday, before ruling on the custody question, Greer reinforced that order.
The custody request was based on the opinion of a neurologist working for the state who observed Schiavo at her bedside but did not examine her.
The neurologist, William Cheshire of the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, is a bioethicist who is also an active member in Christian organizations, including two whose leaders have spoken out against the removal of Schiavo's feeding tube.
There are indeed still some decent bioethicists. I do admit the inaccuracy of one of my posts, in regards to bioethecists in general, but the urgency of the situation regarding Terri should not be underestimated. Regardless of how some percieve me, or my opinions, I will continue to support the cause regarding the right to life. Terri Schiavo is not a "piece of meat" like some folks are inclined to believe. An unborn fetus is not a "piece of meat" either.
Some folks can hate me as much as they please. It does not matter to me. People with cognitive issues have a right to protection from a runaway legal system that thinks they are better off dead. Although some of my replies here were a bit strong worded (and I apologize if it upset people), it is upsetting to me when others consider a severely disabled individual as an excessive "burdon on the system". But they have just as much a right to live out their lives as the rest of us. My appreciation goes out to William Cheshire for supporting Terri's rights.
MrCoffee
[sarcasm]
Im sooo soo sorry for having posted my personal views here, MrCoffee. Also, allow me to thank you for highlighting the link between my post and supporting CAN, somehow I missed it when I wrote it. Thanks for making things easier on those of us who cant think for ourselves.
[/sarcasm]
I never said I supported CAN or autism cure/prevention efforts. I recall saying that I was against them on genetics grounds. I fail to see how this is supposed to translate into supporting them.
Somebody please kill this thread, it has far outlived it's usefulness.
we need a separate forum for abortion issues so they dont get mixed up with everything else
I know you don't support CAN, and I would never expect you to. But what I was trying to do, was make a point. The point I was trying to get through, is that everybody, even the unborn, should have the right to a shot at life. It really hits home when one frail and vulnerable person gets ordered to be starved to death. I did not intend my post to be a personal attack, Nemidaelius. Again, if that post bothered anybody here, then I apologize for not wording it correctly.
MrCoffee
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050323/ids_photos_ts/r4209066064.jpg
In that picture, stands a real MAN wearing those handcuffs. A real MAN who truly believes in his cause, and cares for those who are in need of help. A very respectful MAN who respects the vulnerable, and will go out of his way to protect them. Somebody should give Gabriel Keys a scholarship, as he has stood up for what he believes in and has shown a great deal of compassion for the most needy. I would most certainly like having him as my primary physician some day.
MrCoffee