Aspies For Freedom

Yush, definately, no need to take shit like that, lawyer up and give 'em hell

Can a church support group be sued?  

In the United States, churches have been very successful in setting themselves above the law when it comes to so many things -- taxation, discrimination, etc. They operate largely outside the law and it's very difficult to sue them unless you were physically/sexually harmed.

Yes, churches are allowed to make exclusionary policies, so I don't think they can be sued. I think the best would be to try to expand their perceptions of autistics, and certainly I wouldn't put myself in a position where I would be relying in any way on the individuals who refused you on such absurd basis.

We're discussing churches. They extend love and charity only to those they approve of (basically themselves.) Churches are often fiercely defensive of their right to exclude and reject people, ideas, science, reality, etc.

That's NOT the way God would want it. I mean, look at Jesus... okay, so with that charisma he's definitely NT; but he's socializing with all the misfits in society, and telling off the hypocrites. The really stupid thing is that a lot of ultraconservative churches nowadays have forgotten all that, and now persecute anybody they think is "sinning" somehow--including having a mental difference/mental illness, which are "obviously" just matters of bad self-control (or something equally stupid).

By the way, here's something: Repeatedly, when Jesus heals somebody, he asks explicitly whether they want to be healed. He could just read their minds and get the answer; but he lets them speak for themselves. Very cool. Also note that there's always a distinction between demon-possession and mental illness.

Unfortunately, we've come a long way since then--all downhill. Nowadays, churches say things like, "If you're depressed, you're not right with God," or "God sent you a disabled child as a trial". The most conservative are the biggest offenders, unfortunately--it's much too seldom that you see insistence on sticking with the Bible combined with the kindness the Bible teaches.

There are still good churches out there; and there are still good Christians. Hypocrisy like that is just a bad side-effect of living in a country whose culture has been influenced by Christianity more than any other religion: People don't really think too hard about going to church, or what it means to them. It's just "fire insurance" to them--they don't want to go to hell, so they go to church. (It doesn't work that way, obviously.) Or else it's a matter of feeling like they're "righteous", or because their family goes, or because they think it's good for the kids. You know you've found a good church if people go there because they're interested in God.

That's what I like about Aspies: If they're religious, they're honest about it; if they're atheists, they're honest about that. It's kind of hard to lie to yourself like that when you have to think hard to lie to others... Not like you can't lie; but being aware of it when you do it--unlike NTs--kind of makes self-deception pointless.

I've had experience with the bad sort of Christianity, unfortunately. I served my time at Pensacola Christian Cult... I mean, College... and almost got kicked out when I  had a meltdown and my classmates witnessed it. (I got sent to a counselor who told me to be more friendly if I wanted friends.) Oh, and then the next college I went to actually did kick me out because I went to the hospital for depression and self-injury.

People are just people, whatever they believe; and if a Christian tells you they're better than anybody else, don't believe it--it's just not so. A Christian is just somebody who's accepted God's forgiveness--just as human as anyone else. That very humanity--the imperfection, the petty cruelty, the superficiality--is what drives us to seek God in the first place. In our hearts, there's an ideal self--the person we could be, if we could just be truly good. And it's God who offers the chance to not just forgive our imperfection here, but to make us truly good in heaven. To see the world as it was meant to be; people, as they were meant to be--that will be a great thing. And yes--there will be Aspies in heaven.

(By the way, I've always thought Joseph from Genesis--the kid with the coat of many colors--was an Aspie. Huge talent for management and dream-interpretation; but completely oblivious to ten guys who literally wanted to kill him, innocently bragging about his dreams to jealous brothers, and totally blindsided by come-ons from the employer's wife?... I mean, come on--socially inept, bully victim, special talent--how Aspie can you be?)

Part that drives me the most nuts about trying to disclose an AS diagnosis is so many of the traits are just within normal personality, if they were isolated traits.  People who don't know you well don't see the whole picture.  If they don't want to listen when they ask you "so what does the diagnosis mean?"  They can stop you mid sentence and say "there's nothing wrong with that trait, stop feeling sorry for yourself."  Other people genuinely care but they don't seem to have developed themselves fully as to what actually caring means.  I think a common example in my life has been a friend who really just doesn't like labeling people... they've gotten over the entire calling people fat and stupid and ugly and they've decided to refocus themselves on the idea that everyone is a human and has intrinsic worth.  But instead of saying humans who are fat, ugly, stupid, or otherwise different have intrinsic worth, they just stop at the idea that there is intrinsic worth.  So their need to see the good in people for fear they will be discriminatory directly turns into a need to see the sameness in people.  After telling you how wonderful a human being you are they turn around and say there is nothing different about you-good or bad from the idealized persona they have thrust  on your that they are comfortable feeling platonic love for.  Some people like that will just want to be friends but refuse to understand you and some people like that turn around and lecture you on stop labeling yourself.

I really appreciate their efforts to avoid petty labels they find themselves discriminating based on, but refusing to acknowledge the traits exist leaves them discriminating.  Just puts a happy face on it.

Well, may be its because most of us understand religion is made up by some humans to control what other humans do...

and as a way to get a nice job for life, mustnt forget that

Indeed.

Ah, I thought I was high functioning, but I certainly can't do those things so does that mean I was wrong about my level of functioning?

I know, but I still felt it my duty to inform you. ;]

Thank you for the compliment, Marcia.

*pecks you on the hand, then straightens back up.*

Ah, deities ... organised Religion is about whose invisible friend is stronger. The leaders decide that one needs to conform to belong. Asking questions about beliefs and how and where and when and why is a behaviour that should have been beaten out of you either at home or school.

I was a youth pastor and worked and volunteered in the youth welfare area, as well as working as a counsellor in a sobering-up unit for drug and alcohol affected men (rarely females). When I began having problems with depression, I asked for help, they told me to go away and come back when I stopped 'being difficult'.

*calls upon the Goddess to bless his RPG-7A*

Goddess be with me as I have chosen this path, and above all HARM NONE.


BAH-BEWM