I've read some of the posts in these threads and I got confused. Why won't people with problems accept help? A lot of people with aspergers get depressed, often because they feel they don't fit and that they are misunderstood. Many of these people can't handle a necessary thigs like shopping, paying bills, taking care of a household, etc. Either you can see that as a luxury or feel bad because of the fact that you just live of other people.
There are people trained to help aspies with their social issues and depressions. That doesn't meen they are trying to change the personality of every individual they help, but to support them to feel better. Many of those aspies seem very angry and stuck in their own beliefs about how the world really is. I haven't seen any fact-based arguments to resist therapy and medical care for apergers syndrom and autism.
My boyfriend's got aspergers syndrom and started going to a psychologist for a few months ago. I read a lot about his issues and had a meeting with his therapist. He is doing great process in the search for why he is the way he is. He's dealing with his problems and I admire him for that. It takes a lot of courage to really look in to your personal issues instead of blaming everybody else.
speaking for myself, I wouldn't 'go for help' because I don't need help. I'm just a borderline case, but most definitely different from NTs. I don't mingle, and prefer to read, or just to think. I don't want to be fixed so that I am a social success. When I see groups of people chatting away I think it sounds so shallow, why don't they all just shut up and think about things worth thinking about.
So maybe I'm wrong??? but I am not going to 'go for help', no thanx I like me the way I am.
I'm not saying everyone with these syndroms need to seek help. Well, actually I think it would benefit them in some ways, but that's up to the individual to decide.
When experts talk about cureing autism they don't meen they want to change the whole individual. They just want to help them deal with their difficulties. There are a lot of people with AS and autism who realize things would be easier if they had better social skills and avoid some of that black/white way of seeing things. And it's not like they're going to force everyone with autism to get help... nobody can change you if you don't want to change.
Besides, it is kind of ridiculous to call everybody who isn't autistic in some way for NT. Did it ever accur to you that there are a lot of other mental illnesses out there? And generalizing everyone who's NT, where does that get anyone? And what facts are those comments based on?
By the way, the first post (don't remember the username)... that doesn't sound like autism/AS at all. It's fully normal. And when you say you don't identify yourself with NTs... what kind of people are you comparing yourself to? It's not like they all function the same way...
Marla;
when "they" talk about curing autism, they mean removing it from the genepool period
when you "clean" the genepool, to continue a metaphor, you cause stagnation.
without "us" (us being autists) there would be no aircraft.no electric bulb.no computer in most homes.
think on that awhile, and then tell us we shouldnt exist.
Sonic Boom hit the spot, so Marla, either you need to grow up, or get keelhauled!
It's the worst of the worst being shown. You could hardly call one-on-one sessions with a psychologist or psychiatrist the same as madmen with fake cures, killers, and tortures. There are immense differences between what she described, and what happens in these places. No offense you guys, but I think you're getting a bit overzealous, and making an unfair comparison between what someone said and atrocities that have happened.
Plus, NT is kind of wrong. It's lumping together everyne who's not Autistic into some kind of massive over-bearing oppression by opressers. The things people have been saying about "NTs" has really been out of bounds. Like the thread "we're better" or threads about how much people "hate" the NTs. It's just that they're normal people, and it seems just like a label, and they're all lumped together, like how Marla has been lumped in as an NT. It's no better than lumping all of those on the spectrum together, or all those with AS together. How can we justify it?
I'd understand if she was implying that members of this forum were blaming their personal problems on others. I don't think she means absolutely everyone, but there are some bad eggs. You've seen some of the threads here, you know some of the people who want nothing more than to blame soceity for not adapting to their needs. We're not without our own firebrands and dramatics.
As for our criticisms, it mostly appears that someone concocts something that becomes an ideal, and we stand against things based on how people can display them. For example, the whole issue of "curing" Autistics. Many people consider it to be murder, and that by "curing" the autistic, you kill them and replace them. But there's no proof to it, no scientific theory to back it up, or even common sense, unless you think that Autism is everything about you and your personality, from your earliest memories to this very moment you're reading this. It's ridiculous to believe that every facet of who you are as a person is directly related to Autism. If it were, then where does free will come in?
It's hilarious though, how we welcome her in one topic, and suggest she be keel-hauled in another. Bitterly ironic.
I must warn the NT's here, that I can be a jerk to ANYONE on this site, and may insult them. I may insult them with disdain.
I feel so misunderstood and confused right now. But to clear some things up:
I thought I made it clear that I was refering to a group of people who seem to have a very negative attitude against therapy/help. That DOESN'T meen I accuse everyone on this forum of being anything.
Specific tragic cases that involved people with autism does not interest me at all. Tragic things happend to everybody.
Autistic people are not the only ones that have been threated badly by hospitals through history. It was pretty bad for everyone who was forced into mental care. And do you know why? Because "experts" of that time did not have a clue of what was wrong, why it was the way it way and what they could do to really help these patients.
Books written about AS and autism... well, there are a lot of them. And the ones I read often include interviews, statistics and results of research.
I've never claimed that counselors could understand an autistic persons mind. But I do think that people who want to be helped can and should have the right to get some. Here, in Sweden, there are psychologists who treat people with autism/AS for free and are specialized in those conditions. And I actually do believe that EVERYONE could use therapy at some point of their life. We all get crises.
Midnight Owl: I talked to her simply to get straight with some stuff. I've read a lot of aspergers and got some theories about how it worked. I talked about them and about how me and my boyfriend should work out our problems in a better way. She did not tell me about the things thay talk about in sessions.
And all the talk about others attitudes... autism/AS does affect other people, specielly relatives. There are adult people who can't handle a household and a job and are because of that depending of other people.
And yeah, aspies can really hurt other peoples feelings without intention. It's understandable, but it still isn't okey. And that is a thing these people can work on, learning a bit of what's okey and what's not. My boyfriend's come a long way with that... even if it still is a problem sometimes (because I get sad, and then he gets sad and feels stupid).
And yeah, aspies can really hurt other peoples feelings without intention. It's understandable, but it still isn't okey. And that is a thing these people can work on, learning a bit of what's okey and what's not. My boyfriend's come a long way with that... even if it still is a problem sometimes (because I get sad, and then he gets sad and feels stupid).
Marla, hurting other peoples feelings unintentionally is not exclusive to aspies. Everyone on the planet is capable of doing that.
"these people" -as you put it-get their feelings hurt by others - and intentionally as well.
I am wondering how one would define "learning a bit of what's okay and what's not" ?
If you know your bf doesn't mean to hurt you, then perhaps you could change your response to him-so that he isn't made to feel sad, AND stupid. You could try not to personalize it so much. ?
Just a thought.
Off course evryone is capable of that. BUT, it is more common among aspies... read some facts and books and you'll get it. I know there would not be Social Training Groups and specialists if people with these disabilities didn't have social problems. Or do you think I am wrong?
When it comes to me and my bf... I can't help getting sad or angry at the moment. I usually just get quiet and then we talk and I explain why I got sad. My point was that this kind of situations are not pleasent, and I thought that was something everyone tried to avoid. If the reason to these situations are misunderstandings... well, I'm just saying there are things to do about it.
Midnight Owl: Oh, I didn't meen people live of others because they are lazy... I was talking about people with disabilitys who are unable to live alone, even if they did have a hous and money, etc. And I'm not saying that it's their fault or that they are all unable to learn to take care of themselves...
So Maria you would probably classify my sister as one of those sad cases then, the one who cant live and look after herself then, right! Well suppose your right and thats why she will most likely spend the rest of her life in a home.
I just don't know what kind of point you are trying to make, or who you are trying to get to listen to you. Are you trying to help us the only way you know how and if so in what way? I hope I don't sound harsh I don't me too. I am I just want to understand YOU a little more.
Well, getting help from people who've studied and have experience of these things are the only ones I think can help, in case you can't do it all by yourself. If there are other ways, please tell me. I just know that this kind of help actually works for a lot of people.
I think what is really the point here is that if you and your bf have a difficult incident, what makes you think he is the one that 'needs fixing'
you said: "When it comes to me and my bf... I can't help getting sad or angry at the moment. I usually just get quiet and then we talk and I explain why I got sad. "
maybe if 'normal' folks didn't automatically think we need to get fixed ...
maybe you need anger management therapy or something
...and so ends this drama.
shame, wish we could have pursuaded her to see our side of the story.
ah well, no loss.
I just felt like I didn't get any straight answears. And it got frustrating when people misunderstood what I was saying. However, I'm sorry if I went on too hard, I wasn't exactly sober att the time...
so I'm sorry if I offended anyone.
ah, dont worry 
you are hardly the first to cause accidental offence, and its unlikely you will be the last 
its just, you seem a big aggressive.... and we are, generally, a very... combustible lot.
Sometimes when a post is large and talks about many things, it is hard for some of us to sort out what the actual question is, especially if it is implied.
indeed. it not much use hinting at a question, just out with it :p
I think this issue depends on the type of autism being "cured." In the case of Aspergers, I'm against it. I believe the downsides to it are strictly social, and aspies are great intellects that can contribute greatly to society. There should be no kind of mandatory "cure" or pre-natal prevention program for a disorder which only negatively impacts social behaviors. (Causes people to act "out of the norm.")
HOWEVER, the most severe cases on the spectrum deserve more research on its causes. Simply, people with the most severe cases of autism like down syndrome can't communicate and therefore aren't easily able to communicate their ideas, no matter how creative they may be.
Here's whats confusing me. If the rising rates of autism is constantly being linked with pollution and environmental quality, how is it natural evolution?
In short, if someone is pregnant with an autistic child, the pregnancy shouldn't be aborted solely because of autism. That is genocide. However, some of the goals of organizations such as autism speaks are to support autism research. If a method can be discovered for preventing the negative social aspects but retaining the intellectual aspects of autism, specifically Aspergers, I believe it is something we can get behind. Though, even if a "cure" was somehow made, I wouldn't get it. I'm not willing to go change the personality I've had my whole life.
I think a lot of people new to autistic rights debates get mixed up between the definitions of "cure" and "treatment" - they have fairly specific meanings as far as autism debates go.
"Treatment" is research into helping alleviate negative symptoms of autism. This includes things like training people to navigate the "negative social aspects" of autism, teaching language skills, etc. I believe that the vast majority of people here fully support autism treatments (with the exception of abusive treatments, of course).
A "cure", on the other hand, is about removing autism entirely.
From what you're saying, it sounds like you support treatment, and do not support a cure.
As far as autism being "linked with pollution and environmental quality", I don't really believe it - I think the rise in the rate of autism has much more to do with an increased ability to diagnose autism.
I also should add that Downs Syndrome is not a form of autism - I'm not sure where you got that from.