Aspies For Freedom

I am not really sure whether being heavy or being Aspie is the worse problem, or my problem.  

Yesterday I was visiting a super-church (thousands of people) near a West Virginia college campus (my home church has only 50 people, and every so often an elderly person dies).  Anyway, one man, one woman (on video screens!) were taking turns reading off a list of members' dreams like "fill the Sunday schools (words mine)" and "fill the food pantry [sky high (words mine)]" and I added, in the back of my mind.....

        "reach out to all the people whose only real problem is being rejected, including by some Christians"

I am convinced, though, that waiting seven years after college (with grad school and VR and a career change) for a career and still waiting for a relationship IS A PROBLEM.

Anything that facilitates that is a SOLUTION.

Other than that, Asperger is a gift we can offer if other people will take it, and take us.

We can agree on that, right?

I meant, Asperger is usually a gift in the sense of The Geek Syndrome, the genetic package of

Asperger and
one or more of the following

facility with computers and computer languages
goal-oriented use of methods and procedures such as computer programming or research design (of which I have both)
mathematics, even advanced statistics (multiple regression, analysis of variance, analysis of covariance, F-test, matrix algebra)
sciences (hard sciences, astronomy, geology, chemistry, physics, biology, medicine)
social sciences (sociology, economics), investigative history, and law
(perhaps) writing and editing

  This seems to be the pattern of my dad's side of the family (chemist, math teacher, and most telling, two brothers computer programmers and Web designers) but....

  Profound ethics and citizenship (my dad and I)
  Delayed or non-existent female relationship (all except dad)

Quickduck, you are a gentleman, and also a loyal friend, to your friends I would be horrified if you were banned because you are supporting a friend, and I would not support that at all.
I am not trashing Wilky-simply wondering why Wilky is trashing Amy and Gareth. They are good people who have a different point of view, too.

Everyone who wants to be "cured" has a reason.  Rogue wanted to love someone, but she couldn't touch someone without killing him.  Superman's mother insisted he had to become a mortal Earth man to love Lois Lane, who is an example of an awful lot of woman inside and outside and upstairs (this is a good time to mention that Margot Kidder struggled with bipolar disorder).  

I don't care what they say I won't live in a world without love?

And the love for a child is very strong, too.
I would change the world for my child if my child had special needs if I could, but I could not.  Inevitably it is easier to change one self than to change the world, or at least to try to cope with the world.  


Judge not.

Whoa there, perhaps her opinions are misguided, but I don't see how you can take these posts to the effect of "you all have no right to exist".

How come I am attacked for being critical, yet this passes for good discourse?

If you all really think this is such a lowly attack on some decent people, there's no reason to stoop to that level.

That's like saying a cure for cancer means people with cancer no longer existed. If you genuinely believe that autism is no different from cancer, a disease that can and should be removed to help improve the quality (or even prospects of) life, then I don't see how it's really so bad.

Perhaps it's wrong to say that autism is really like cancer, but then it's wrong and not outright evil.

I didn't realize this was a political movement. I thought it was an online forum geared towards asperger's and autism and the people who have to deal with it.

[quotd]
And Simen, I know that you love a good debate, and I even admire you for continuing to argue for your beliefs when others dislike them, but you have to understand that the cure debate is firmly off the table.

There's plenty of sites that have endless threads over whether or not autism is a disease. This will never be one of them.
[/quote]

It seems to me it has been before and continues to be.

It's really quite simple. Wilky said she doesn't want to be here, and she wanted everyone to know that and why, too. She tells why in her original post. No one drove her away today, that is clear. As she herself said she doesn't want to be here, I hardly think she has been "torn away from her community" Obviously she has no respect for this community.
Wilky herself said it didn't matter to her what we said
( she didn't care, or want, to debate it)
She just wanted to spew, I think, and let everyone know that her life is a "living nightmare"
The people here are not making her life this way. They are simply standing up for what THEY believe in. Wilky herself is responsible for believing this way about her life.
Really, the simple thing would have been just to stay away from here, if she didn't want to be here- but she felt compelled to come here and say what she did today...

I was using "you" in a general sense--as in "one". The point being, if one (not YOU(the second person singular pronoun)) believes that autism is like cancer, then one might think the way wilky thinks, without wishing that autistics should wither and die.

I think that wilky, who may or may not be misguided, only wants the best for people; her opinions of what is best are only profoundly different from yours. (I also acknowledge the lowliness of flaming and personal attacks that also stem from this thread; but I don't think wilky has anything against autistics in particular).

Remove cancer, and you're not the same person. Remove poor eyesight, not the same person. Everything, both good and bad, about you, contributes to your person. Hell, you're not the same person you were a minute ago, or an hour, or a day or week or lifetime.

I do not believe this is an attempt to destroy or annihilate anyone.

No one is trying to eradicate us anymore than treatments for cancer eradicates cancer-patients. It is my view that an embryo of some weeks is not a person, and deserves not the rights of a person, so I don't care much for non-persons aborted due to prenatal testing. And no one wants to kill off real persons, i.e., autists that have been born.

They may or may not be misguided, but they are certainly not doing this to scorn or destroy autistics.

Further, it's a bit silly that people will scorn Autism Speaks and so on, claiming that they shouldn't presume to speak for those who cannot speak themselves, when that is what those self-same people do: claim that they have a right and knowledge to speak for those they don't know or have any experience being or being with.

I see nothing of the sort on the frontpage. It says AFF is a hub for the online community around autism/AS, for "autism, offline groups, autism rights, legitimate therapies for comorbid conditions, diagnosis, employment and education and AS special interests".

And now for something completely different.

Can we get a lift on the ridiculous idea that you can only post so-and-so many posts in a day? I assume that's why EvilZakkie is EvilZakkie2. When discussions are hot and active, you sometimes want to defend yourself and your view before the discussion has rolled so far on that it's too late. That's difficult when you're limited. I assume the reason is that people won't SPAM, but when they post coherent, on-topic and thoughtful posts, I don't see what the problem with allowing them to post more a day is.

I agree completely with what you have said about Simen and this thread, EvilZakkie.
I feel dizzy, and actually somewhat ill over this whole thing starting with the original post.  Let's just let this thread die.

Wilky does not believe in Aspies for Freedom, and what this site represents.  I just have a problem with her coming here to say what she did in her original post-and then not caring if she hurt anyone here "except for 2 people" or cared that we debated it.

She isn't stupid-obviously she knew that her statements would, at very least, hurt Amy and Gareth. Her motive then? Not to offend?
Did she just want to unburden herself? Why?
Have we hurt her in the past? How has the Autistic Rights movement hurt Wilky?
I am for this site, which is for Autistic rights. These are my beliefs.
That does not mean that I do not support Wilky-the person. She is obviously hurting a lot.
I have sympathy for Wilky, that she is in obviously anguish, and have no qualms about offering support to her-but what kind of support? What would help her?

I am a spectrumite and my son is officially diagnosed Autistic. He didn't talk or make sense until he was 5. He still has trouble comprehending what other people say or do. He can be extremely anxious, have meltdowns, tantrums, hit me and himself, bolt, run off, be supremely obsessive..etc.. He needed help in the bathroom until he was 9,
and he is kind, sweet, funny, etc....
...he can conduct a 17 minute, um.. mahler symphony.

He has severe days and not so severe days. Don't we all? Don't we ALL have challenges in life?
I cannot look at my own life, and my child, as a "living nightmare"
If I do-my life, and his, would be..
well, a  nightmare.
  
Just because I believe this, doesn't mean that my life is all rosy, and music is playing in the background while we go walking off into the sunset. My son has many challenges that can be overwhelming to me-his advocate, and translater.
It is a big responsiblity because I have trouble sometimes even cooking dinner. I was called a freak last week. People think we are very weird.  
BUT we muddle on. I am proud of my son, and he is proud of himself! YAY.
He knows that being Autistic is "a part of who I am"

Everyone here has their own beliefs and thoughts about the world, we are all unique. We are not always going to agree either. We can still like the person ie Wilky but not her message.

I don't like her message. I don't like that she posted it here-at a site set up with the intention of Not Hating Autism.
I wish she would change her mind. I wish she hadn't offended people that I care about, and wish that she could see Autism in a different light.
If we can help people like Wilky and John Best change their minds about hating Autism then we ultimately help ourselves...

AH, the silver lining.
Of course, I spent all day on my one post and I am shaking with all sorts of displaced emotion.. but yeah

With all do respect this entire thread from the 3 page has been TLR (Too long didn't read)

I mangaged to read all of it. But wow. Some people not just Wilky are spiteful. I really have nothing much to add but. Autism isn't something we can cure, however I would like to see treatment for many co-morbids, such as sezuires, gastroinestial issues, Insomia and the like. I believe in celebrating the child. Not just the Autism. The whole she-bang, and think people would agree with me. I wonder if my friend Doug who is Classic Autist, who is at the far end of the specturm. Ever seen his parents? Do they even visit their son who is instutionalized? These questions often make me wonder.

All in all...

I think I would speak for all of us. If stop beating this dead equid. For the love of god the horse is already in rigo mortis >>

LOL

That wins :3 Nice one Ivar!

....

Someone need to make tee shirt. One with the spectrum lambada, with a big gladus sword through it and the words.
"THIS IS MADNESS!?"
"NO THIS IS SPECTRUUUUUUMMM!!"

and sell it on Cafe press :3