Aspies For Freedom

wilky Wrote:

Autism, at it's most severe is a living nightmare for the individual child or adult, and advocating against a 'cure' is sheer ignorance and cruelty.

Amy and Gareth,
I sincerely hope that one day you will feel some shame for politicizing what is essentialy a serious debilitating condition, and indoctrinating your own belief system via propaganda and scaremongering vulnerable and troubled young adults and children on the autistic spectrum, who come to AFF for support and friendship from others like themselves.
Could either of you honestly say you have any real experience of living with profound autism?
I think you would benefit John Best's example. His relentless effort and determination to 'cure' his son's autism is commendable and is a credit to him.

ok did you write this?

because if you did i would like to say a few things

john best is not a credit to his son he uses chelation which is extremely dangerous it can kill.

him wanting to "cure" his sons autism is through his own delusions and vanity granted his son is extremely autistic but there are ways you can help a severe autistic and injecting them with chemicals is not going to help

john best only wants to eliminate autism so his twisted little ideas of racial supremecy can be acheived if he didn't why would he pick the name "hating autism" for his website and post things on there like "the idiocy of neurodiversity"

and amy and gareth appose cures to autism ONLY if they are forced if the autistic really wants it then fine.

amy and gareth are not in the wrong for being anti-cure its people like john best/ fore-sam that want to have "normal" kids so they feel better

please think again about what you post before you visit this website again

sorry if this post went on too long!

erkolos Wrote:

I'm not sure what wilky feels about John Best specifically, what he did to Kevin Leitch's daughter was disgusting, and I haven't figured what other things his blog stands for except hate against people who support neurodiversity.

what did john best do to kevin leitch's daughter?

erkolos Wrote:

He posed as her in comments and made fun of her at his blog. Kevin Leitch closed down Left Brain/Right Brain for the safety of his daughter.

that is despicable this man should not only have his blog erased from existence but be locked away in a asylum for OUR safety! like he so often suggested to autistics who are way more intelligent the him but what goes around comes around i hear the idiot has finally realised that chelation doesn't work!

wilky Wrote:

Autism, at it's most severe is a living nightmare for the individual child or adult, and advocating against a 'cure' is sheer ignorance and cruelty.

Amy and Gareth,
I sincerely hope that one day you will feel some shame for politicizing what is essentialy a serious debilitating condition, and indoctrinating your own belief system via propaganda and scaremongering vulnerable and troubled young adults and children on the autistic spectrum, who come to AFF for support and friendship from others like themselves.
Could either of you honestly say you have any real experience of living with profound autism?
I think you would benefit John Best's example. His relentless effort and determination to 'cure' his son's autism is commendable and is a credit to him.

John Best is not a good example to anyone. Have you actually read the way he treats people? This is not only in his 'Hating Autism' blog, but in other places as well.

How do you think his child who has autism is going to feel when he grows up if he finds out that his father hates what he is?

There is no cure for autism wilky. The parents of the children who have it just have to accept their children and do the best they can. It's like trying to find a cure for downs syndrome. Sure there is a way to do pre-natal screening to abort the child before it is born, but there is no way to change the child once it's born. Please don't think I'm relating Down's Syndrome as being similar to autism... Just that it's something a child is born with.

You knew you were going to offend people with this post wilky. It was your intention to offend, so don't act surprised when people respond in the same manner.

Joker Wrote:

The thing is, we have to make our own choices, and not simply be swayed by the group's choice. Wilky made her choice, knowing what it would bring, and she did it anyways. A noble act to speak up for someone who is taken for granted to be evil. But behind his actions, we see a father struggling to give his son freedom to live his life to it's fullest. To be able to do what any other person can do. To live, to learn, to love, to give, to get, to have, to hold, and to cherish.

It's easy to call someone evil, and mock them, but it's another thing entirely to understand them, to know what drives them forward through a storm of cruelty.

Wilky has given herself to this. She is cast adrift by it, torn from the community, tormented by those she knew as friend. She is taking a stand for what she believes in, and stands firm under this pressure. She stands firm as she is ridiculed, vilified, insulted, reduced, by her community. It's easy to hate, and harder to love, and harder still to love what hates you. It is so difficult.

John Best is not just a father standing up for his child and trying to help him. He is offensive. I'll give you an example of him insulting a person who commented on his blog saying they are overweight -

"If you really don't see what lack of self respect has to do with being obese, get naked and look in the mirror. Do you like what you see? Do you think anyone else would?

This is not a person who should be encouraged and supported. Leaving the cure autism thing aside, people who discriminate against someone by how they look should never be supported and anyone who does support also should not be supported in kind.

Also, she is not an innocent party in all of this. Wilky believes that Amy and Gareth should essentially close up AFF and leave all autistic people to just be supported by pro-cure organisations who will tell everyone they are flawed and need to be cured.

Joker Wrote:

Not everyone against the Autistic Rights Movement wants to cure us.

Maybe true, but John Best does and Wilky does. Have you actually read Hating Autism today? He is attacking a low functioning person, Amanda Baggs, not someone with Aspergers. I fully support him if he wants to help his son to be able to cope better in the world. This I understand. But there is absolutely no excuse for him insulting people in the way he does (the one that I posted earlier in this thread). That is discrimination and that is telling someone to feel bad about themselves because of how they look and encouraging them to believe that society will never accept them for who they are. This is who John Best is.

John Best's thread is about insulting people. There was one recent thread where he requested advice because he did not know what to do about his son's biting. Autistic people came and gave advice and what did he do? He went straight back to attacking autistic people (Amanda Baggs) in the very next thread. This man deserves no respect.

Simen Wrote:

Quote:

The name of this site is �� *AFF.........ASPIES FOR FREEDOM*
I would have thought that the very name indicates the reason for the existence of this site.

Which is...what? Are you being held prisoner by evil anti-autists?

Quote:

I joined in order to contribute in any way towards the aims of AFF, also to help someone in the USA who has some similar ideas. (sadly I have been to busy to do the latter.) However I personally have gained a great deal in many respects from being a member & I resent any inference that AFF is not what it says it is or that the members are similar in any way to the 'curbie groups'

Where do you find this inference?

Also, no I haven't seen any videos of mothers that state they want to kill their children...But if there are such videos, I wonder why they haven't been used for identifying and apprehending the person. I wouldn't trust a child with a mother who has explicitly and publically stated her intent to kill it...would you?

Quote:

Many of us��indeed do live with those who cannot speak for themselves & find ways to help them to express themselves.

Trouble is, these "curbie groups" as you call them are often groups of parents--they do live with people who cannot speak for themselves and they also claim to find ways to speak for them anyway.

                                       simen
im really sorry but i have to ask you this why are are you critisizing the name of the website when you could have joined another group without this title? also no offence but you seem to be a little blind to how uninnocent these curebie's are

                                        wilky
to you i am not sorry about saying this if you support john best you are extremely deluded as i said he is not a credit to his son he is an fool who is to pig-headed to see that he knows almost nothing about autism why on earth did you join this group when you are pro-cure and have the view autism is a disease? as sarah joke said basically just leave this site.

                                        joker
we are not "cruel people" we are basically saying if you are coming onto this site to be a childish little troll spouting garbage about how autism is a disease you should leave and find a website where your thoughts are appreciated.

Simen Wrote:

Quote:

�� simen
im really sorry but i have to ask you this why are are you critisizing the name of the website when you could have joined another group without this title?

I wasn't. I was merely criticizing the idea that from the title alone, one would be able to infer what this site's goal and policies are.

Quote:

also no offence but you seem to be a little blind to how uninnocent these curebie's are

Oh yes indeed. It's difficult to find the bare facts, since most everyone (no offense) here only ever writes in opinionated, passioned styles. Is there a bare-bones, just-the-facts-I'll-provide-the-opinions-myself guide to the evils of these "curebies" somewhere?

i was only saying that is how you are coming across and your response is exactly why you keep getting comments from other users so you can't really complain about it

Simen Wrote:

You managed to state these without being overly preaching. See, it's not so hard! An example to follow, instead of the idea that one opinion is so obvious that it needn't be explained or justified.

Absolutely, and I usually do when people are unfamiliar with the debate.

The reason I did not do so with Wilky is that she has been here for years, she is very familiar with the politics involved, she has seen all the standard arguments before, and she still chose to write a "$@^%you all, I'm leaving" post. This was more for the benefit of newer members.

rossco Wrote:

Let? Do you believe any parent would let that happen. Do you believe that we know every interaction, thought or feeling John has towards his child. Timelord I know has him all "worked" out and has hypothesised to ridiculous lengths to know all about John Best and his likes/dislikes/intentions. Truth is we don't know.
My boy used to be constipated and toilet training was a nightmare. He used to be in pain and discomfort. He used to fear the toilet. Was I a bad parent? Timelord would probably think so but how many kids has he got?
Do not take Timelord's articles at face value. We don't really know him at all.

Remember too that people often have differences of opinions on things and reasons and experiences to back their judgement. Pro-cure and autism rights are polar opposites. There are fanatics on both sides of people "along the spectrum" of opinion.

As much as I'm not a fan of John Bests work (meaning the blog, not his parenting), Timelord was an absolute nutjob when it came to John Best, and I don't think too many people here took him seriously at all.

Pakrat Wrote:

It just seemed like a very ill-advised thread and why is she doing it now when the big kerfuffle was a couple of months ago? It annoys me that this silliness has started all over again.

I'd like to try to summarise this thread once and for all so we can all move on.

Most would agree that Wilkys post wasn't a good idea, regardless of how you feel about Wilky herself. Either way, she's well and truly gone, and there's no point debating over how bad an idea it was.

For those that dislike John Best, remember that the best way to hurt his cause is to not promote his blog by talking about it, and not insult him to the extent that he has new material for his next rant. The only reason he is so well known is that all sorts of pissed off autistic people have made him well known. Leave him alone, and he will cease to exist.

For those that support John Best, I'm sure you won't have a problem with the "not insulting him" method of dealing with him.

Regarding the cure debate that has sprung up, it's true that some interesting points have indirectly popped throughout this debate - but I'd like to remind you all that we can talk about these points anywhere, without bumping back up an altogether negative experience from forum history.

I hope that settles things.

EvilZakkie Wrote:

Can we please all stop bumping this thread back up? Yes, Fore Sam does these kinds of stupid stunts so Autistics will get up in arms and promote his blog all over the internet.

And it works, every time.

It's time to break the cycle.

...And ditto to this thread

I realise that there has been some positive discussion to come out of this, but at the end of the day, it's positive discussion that we can have anywhere else, without promoting John Bests blog, or rehashing Wilkys tantrum.

BardWolf Wrote:

....

Someone need to make tee shirt. One with the spectrum lambada, with a big gladus sword through it and the words.
"THIS IS MADNESS!?"
"NO THIS IS SPECTRUUUUUUMMM!!"

and sell it on Cafe press :3

Great idea!

Batman55 Wrote:

I find Shamshir's mad perseveration on the 300 Aspie Warriors to be humorous, but I do agree that it is pretty restrictive--I don't know if he has said much beyond the "300 Aspie Immortals" stuff.

To clarify, the Autistic Immortals and the 300 Aspies are separate.

Very funny, Ian. (sarcasm)

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