Aspies For Freedom

Full Version: The cause of Asperger's : Evolution
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If we're so superior, why do we have to keep saying so?
I personally don't see much differences between people on "different ends of the spectrum". There are just some few ability-differences that can divide them significantly in functionality.

I think what Amanda Baggs writes here might be an eye opener:

http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=79
I think it was about 45% of our members that have posted last time I checked the statistics, many of those who don't post will often lurk.
Simen, you're easily perceived as rude.
I guess you could have been perceived as rude in the atheism discussions you mentioned earlier, pointing out that you had managed to get "many answers" to something you wrote.

The problem is that when you disagree with something in a single post, you tend to attack the whole post, which is easily perceived as a personal attack. And when you say "no evidence" it could actually be perceived as ignorant.
In short:

You need to learn the art of gentle criticism.
You need to learn gentle criticism.
Note to Simen, in the US you can't have an ADD and autism diagnosis at the same time.
I'm not sure of what context to put what you've written in.

Autistic_Shoes Wrote:
It was all to do with psychopaths which some how seems to have been dropped from the original description "Autistic Psychopathy".


Actually, "autistic psychopathy" never meant psychopaths.

"Psychopathy" in that context meant "psychological pathology".  It did not mean sociopaths, psychopaths, whatever.

Simen Wrote:

mikegeo Wrote:
why wouldn't aspergers/autism increase reproduction?  this statement denotes/insinuates that people on the spectrum do not have sexual interests or needs.  I think this is a crock.  One does not need to be overly social to procreate or even be in a relationship and have children.  obviously, we have been here since the begining and we are still here on this planet, and so our very exisitance is proof that we are genetically equal, or perhaps, better, than our NT counterparts.  You speak of us as an extinct species; historical in nature, or an odd mutant gene, lucky to be alive; yet, we are the innovators of ideas and art; individualistic thinking; both philosophical; and ingenious, in nature.  we are the purveyors of ideas.


I'm with EvilZakkie on this one. There's nothing that suggests autistics are any more likely to have children, or even as likely to procreate, as NTs.

A couple of points. First:

In a discussion on this board earlier, I asked how it could be that there's an almost constant population of homosexuals in society despite them (generally) not reproducing (well, at least not until modern technology with artificial insemination and whatnot came a long). I had naively ignored that a trait, however genetic it is, need not be apparent in any given phenotype. Genes can lay dormant for many generations; one common example is a gene that causes some deadly disease under special conditions but under other conditions protects from malaria.

One doesn't have to be overly social to have children, but it certainly helps. I cannot believe you think that a group of people characterized by impaired social understanding and lower social drives have as many or more children than do everyone else. It makes no sense at all. To spread your genes, you probably need to be in a relationship, at least nowadays, when contraception and abortions are easy to come by. To do that, you need to be possess some social skills. And especially when you consider the lower-functioning end on the spectrum (by lower functioning, I mean simply unable to function in daily life without substantial help)--how in the world do you suppose they can keep up with everyone else when it comes to spreading genes?

Even in Silicon Valley I doubt people on the spectrum procreate more than others, and that area is commonly thought to have an extremely high density of autistics compared to everywhere else.

Second, you mustn't so easily cross the is-ought gap. The Scottish philosopher David Hume noticed some centuries ago that many writers, when it comes to morality, make sudden, illogical jumps from what is, i.e., how matters are, to how things ought to be. This led him to issue a warning: be very careful when you try to go from is to ought. Some think it can't be done; I'm inclined to agree.

But anyway, this is what you do when you go from genetic traits to human value. That way lies Social Darwinism, the belief that society ought to be structured after natural selection: the survival of the fittest. Screw autistics, poor, and other people somehow disabled in the race for survival and glory: the best fit are the ones that ought to survive, and only them, for the betterment of society and the human race. I strongly believe this isn't what you think, in fact, I believe you think the opposite, but this is what can result from carelessly jumping across the aforementioned gap.

So, I'll agree with EvilZakkie: autism advocacy is about human rights, not about science or evolution.

Then again we can either not assume that autistics are unlikely to get children.

Maybe, but it is more dubious that it is significant for the whole group.
I'm not so sure about that, aspies might find other ways you know.

In the last hundred years fewer children are born per person at least in the industrialized part of the world. There is probably a big number of neurotypicals who never get children either.

Question is, what is the ratio between neurotypical and autistic reproduction.

Ofcourse what you said sounds logical, but I question whether it is a significant factor.
I bet Simen will chop that post up.
I'm not well-informed about that, might it vary from state to state?
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