A question for Aspies and NTs...do you think that the Myers-Briggs personality test could eventually be a model for better describing ASDs?
I ask because the current infor on Aspergers and Asds in general is so disorganized, swayed by individual perception, and, oftentimes more harmful than helpful (I just finished reading "A Parent's guide to Asperger's syndrome and HFA..." and it is, IMO mostly crap with only the tiniest bit of substance). First, my DH and my son don't "have" Asperger's. You have the flu. You have an ingrown toenail. You don't "have" Aspergers. That's like saying I "have" introversion. I suffer from introversion and need "treatment". Blech. I AM, among many thing, an introvert. Insight into my personality which includes introversion can be helpful - along the line of the Myers Briggs. My son and husband ARE, among other things, Aspies. They don't need "treatment". But insight into this facet of their personalities would be very helpful.
I also am noticing that there is an overlapping "group" of descriptors for people like my DH and my son that include HFA, AS, NVLD, PDD-NOS, etc. No one appears to agree to what extent these terms are separate or overlapping. Maybe a better understaing would incorporate some of the most common elements - sensory processing, learning style, social interaction, and emotional expression - into a "term" like INTJ or ENFP.
Thoughts?
Not familiar with Myer-Briggs anything.
Sounds difficult to have a clear definition of autism. Personally I've always had the idea that you just lack some random natural instincts. Which challange you mentally in day-life when you don't have a ready-made solution for every situation.
http://www.personalitypathways.com/type_inventory.html
MB is very big in the corporate world and with human resources. I most recently ran into a MB discussion at a higher-education seminar. We all took the test and, as a group, demonstrated again the preponderance of INTJs (introverted, intuitive, thinking, judging) in higher ed. INTJs are only 10% of the population but are something like 40-50% of academics and higer ed professionals. So there is something to the concept that the combination of the 4 characteristics identifes groups of people that are likely to share traits that influence their career choices, hobbies and interests, and even mate selection.
Most people know about "introvert" and "extrovert". MB just adds 3 more categories to make a broader but more detailed characterization.
As far as ADS, I look to my husband as a template for learning about my son. And there are many many similiarites. But there are also some differences. DH has an excellent oral memory. He also "reads" people very very well (better than I do). So is he not an Aspie? Is my son not one because he does not share these traits? Or should oral versus visual memory be two facets that describe ASDs rather than include or exclude? I just see a tendancy in literature and professional opinions to "define" Autistics in one particular way. And if someone doesn't fit one thing, they get a different label. To me, it ends up being less informative and confusing.
I think I understand what you're getting at. Saying "I am an INTJ" encodes a ton of information to people up on Myers-Briggs. Someone here started a thread, which I've not been able to find, which has labels associated with different types of aspies. They named each type after a famous diagnosed or possible aspie.
So, you could have a grid, something like:
H vs L (highly sensitive to stimuli vs low sensitivity to stimuli)
E vs P (reactive/emotive during meltdowns vs paralyzed/catatonic during meltdowns)
S vs R (seeks bonding with people vs reclusive)
C vs U (has good motor skills vs uncoordinated)
etc etc...
So, if someone said: what kind of aspie are you? I could answer, oh I'm a LPSU
(Sorry, these contrasts aren't the greatest descriptors, I just woke up. It might be a fun exercise, though, to try and describe in such a way the contrasts between aspies.)
This seems far more helpful to me. My current challenge is getting my son the best learning environment possible. Rather than relying on the school's understanding of what "autistic" means or even what "aspergers" means, it would be helpful to be able to describe a range of characteristics that include learning style, sensitivities, social responses, and etc. I am also somewhat wary that the next specialist who sees him is going to say, "well, his interests aren't *that* intense, therefore he's not Aspergers. See ya and good luck." never mind the rest of the so-called- "list" that fits him very well.
Ha! We're leapfrogging posts here
I think you have the right idea--that is, do research on what's actually true about your son's talents, learning style, adaptability/resiliency style, etc and figure out what strategies will be helpful. It might take some experimentation. This would be true whether or not he receives an official diagnosis of something. Either way, he's a complex individual. In my opinion, it's the particularities about a person, more so than the generalities, that make him or her noteworthy. So yeah---learn about the different types of aspies (lots of em here) and make a grid wherein you can localize your family members analogously to mbti.
Well, there is also the Vin diagram of reality versus what I really want 
. Currently, ASD diagnoses get the "attention" in the school setting whereas auditory hypersensitivity does not. Even though my son's auditory hypersensitivities might impact his learning far more. Ah well.
I believe I'm an INTP.
My mom is crazy into MB so we talk about it often. She thinks my oldest is an ENFP like her.
But we have been starting to seperate the differences between our families developmental problems and their personalities... even though the two are rather fluid together. (We have a lot of ASD on one side and ADHD on the other)
We came up with a hypothesis that perhaps the INTP/J in its extremes is AS and maybe ENFP is ADHD in its extremes. But that was mostly introspection.
I totally see the conundrum about getting him the right label so he can get the help he needs. I have a similar prob with my 5YO daughter.
Good Luck
Basically my oral memory/auditory learning is so poor that I often can't understand a movie the first time I watch it (I quickly lose track of what's going on), unless it has the closed captions/subtitles running. I seem to do a lot better if I can see the dialogue.
Hubby is half deaf in both ears and we finally started using captions, I'm amazed at how well I'm actually retaining info on TV. Sorry for the derailment!
Interesting, my oral/auditory memory is so horrific it could be placed in the "learning disability" range, I think part of the problem is from having a very deficient short-term working memory (seems to be a common problem for SOME Aspies, albeit not all.)
However my visual memory could be described as "incredible," I just need to see a word or picture once (usually) and I can remember enough about it.
Basically my oral memory/auditory learning is so poor that I often can't understand a movie the first time I watch it (I quickly lose track of what's going on), unless it has the closed captions/subtitles running. I seem to do a lot better if I can see the dialogue.
I'm reading Thinking in Pictures right now (and, can I say that Temple Grandin's book have been immesurably more helpful and insightful than the so-called "Aspie books"???) and I like her description of 3 kinds of thinking: visual (she and you), math/music (I think the book Born on a Blue Day is written by a math/music thinker) and verbal/logic. These would definitely have to be categories on the ASD classification system.
Interestingly, while Aspergers seems to be inhereted (a la my DH and son), their type of thinking is different. DH is a verbal/logic thinker (hence his excellent recall) while my son is a visual thinker (he is 7 and describes a process of "filing" visual images away for later recall - in perfect detail- that is very similiar to Temple Grandin's). I think the inherited/genetic part must have morre to do with how the brains system of thinking is wired up to its communication/sensory processing.
I believe I'm an INTP.
My mom is crazy into MB so we talk about it often. She thinks my oldest is an ENFP like her.
But we have been starting to seperate the differences between our families developmental problems and their personalities... even though the two are rather fluid together. (We have a lot of ASD on one side and ADHD on the other)
We came up with a hypothesis that perhaps the INTP/J in its extremes is AS and maybe ENFP is ADHD in its extremes. But that was mostly introspection.
I totally see the conundrum about getting him the right label so he can get the help he needs. I have a similar prob with my 5YO daughter.
Good Luck
Interesting theory. It fits for my family as well. DH is an INFP. My daughter (Aspie son's twin sister) is a strong ENFP and, I suspect, has ADHD/ADD characteristics. But, come to think of it, my DH and son's social aversions and discomfort probably overly influence the I/E category. My DH never had any kind of intervention/therapy/assistance so he is introverted almost to the point of reclusion without prodding.
That is very interesting, you know that's the one book I still haven't managed to read, will have to see if my lame local library has it.
I love that classification of thinking, very accurate to what I've been noticing lately on forum and with other aspies. I'm a visual thinker, as is my sister, I think my dad is a verbal/logic thinker. Lots of aspies in my fam.
(well, potentially I guess, still haven't crossed that with my dad)
That is very interesting, you know that's the one book I still haven't managed to read, will have to see if my lame local library has it.
I love that classification of thinking, very accurate to what I've been noticing lately on forum and with other aspies. I'm a visual thinker, as is my sister, I think my dad is a verbal/logic thinker. Lots of aspies in my fam.
(well, potentially I guess, still haven't crossed that with my dad)
My current theory (subject to revision, of course ) is that the style of thinking is at the root of differences on the spectrum. Rather than one cable plugged into each of the thinking "modes", people on the spectrum have two plugged into one area and one with no cable. Or all 3 plugged into the same area and 2 left with no cable. An Aspies's ability to learn depends almost entirely upon how those connections operate in their brain. For example, we noticed early on that our son appeared to lack empathy, and had a limited range of emotions. From Temple's book I think that is because he simply cannot learn emotions from experience/intuition/observation like NTs would using a combination of thinking strategies. He CAN learn it, but the information has to get to him in the way he processes - visual pictures. I'm still working on how to demonstrate emotions to him in a visual way....but I think that is the key. Everything else stems from how he can acquire information. Reading and spelling are visual. Writing is not. Basic math facts ca be visual. Inferential math is not.
FWIW, I also think that verbal/logic thinkers and visual thinkers have more in common with each other while math/music thinkers are slightly different. Verbal and visual thinkers are all about concrete examples and illustrations that they can see, read or hear. No inference necessary. Math/music thinkers can make those inferences and probaly do so in an "illogical" (logical to them) way.
Just my ruminations on a Monday morning....
I'll have to PM you now, or I'll completely derail this thread. Something I seem to be good at today.
I was an ISTJ, but last time I took the Myers Briggs I was an INTJ (huh, wtf?)
I am sure if you wanted to you could play with the Myers Briggs long enough you could learn to fake it, even convince yourself. That is a big danger in psychometrics.
If some people start cheating on tests or start hiding their advanced credentials on the application forms, I understand and I think it serves the bloody blokes right (to avoid a nice American cuss word)
Maybe they even have a program to make you an external something blah blah.
When I started my Census Bureau job, I was an internal, but I noticed something, I was exercising my niceness. I was doing little nice things, either just because or deep down inside to help myself fit in. Well it has helped me fit in here for 8.5 years, when added to .5 years of Census, that makes 9.0 total. I still want 10 and I want to celebrate at 10.
My last test, I was an INTJ, I had drifted away from an ISTJ.