Autistics are all different.
"If you've met one autistic, you've met one autistic"
Know the person, not "autism".
I agree. Stereotypes, even seemingly positive ones, can only be harmful in the long run. Not too big a jump from "The Happy Negro" to "The Honest Aspie."
I find that there seems to be a clustering of logic, rationality and what I call "logical communitarianism", where aspies can be convinced of something by logic and accept it without their ego's getting in the way. (unless it's something they are personally emotionally invested in).
Is that to say that while 'aspies' are able to absorb a particular argument that conforms to their preconceived emotional prejudices, which may appear much like an ontological argument, that the underlying logic may be flawed by precisely those conditioned prejudices?
I noted this because in another forum, discussing political idealogies and socio-economic systems, the members could not be convinced by rational argument, it was like they were talking and conscious, but they were being controlled by their feral unconscious mind and instincts, and what they said were just backwards rationalizations for their lack of action.
What conditioning controls the unconscious mind to the extent that one finds oneself rationalizing a lack of action about the global catastrophe of the day?
On a socialist forum I suggested that they get together in second life and test out their economic theories in the virtual world and establish virtual communities and economies and I was greeted with excuses... it's similar to religion -- everyone wants eternal life, but no one really wants the moral constraints.... and therefore act hypocritical.
What do you guys think?
I love this post.
However, for every ying there is a yang, and the truth lies somewhere betwixt the two. Aspies have a tendency to see ideas in either full or null sets, though I suspect that our stubbornness is influenced, as is the case with all human beings, by the social environment in which we find our condition.
I'm not very logical or rational, to be honest. Does that mean I'm not a genuine Aspie?
The thread title was: "Are aspies more trustworthy and rational?"
There is a saying that "truth comes from the heart", and therefore, if aspies are as honest as is stated in the literature on such matters, then we couldn't be logical all of the time.
If to be logical, rational, and honest is to be 'aspie' then your honest self-assessment and your outward honesty would seem to indicate that you have one of the parameters licked.
I cannot speak for others, but for myself it is a matter of keeping the world simple. People who lie must keep up with more than one version of reality, and which of their associates is aware of which parts of which versions. Makes me tired just thinking about it. I'm doing good to keep up with one version. It's as simple as that -- lying is too much work.
I suspect that the appeal of logic has the same source. It is a simple system with clearly defined rules and generally reliable outcomes.
I'm not very logical or rational, to be honest. Does that mean I'm not a genuine Aspie?
Batman - I've been reading your posts and you are logical. When you add things to topics, I like what you have to say, it is always well thought out.
I cannot speak for others, but for myself it is a matter of keeping the world simple. People who lie must keep up with more than one version of reality, and which of their associates is aware of which parts of which versions. Makes me tired just thinking about it. I'm doing good to keep up with one version. It's as simple as that -- lying is too much work.
I suspect that the appeal of logic has the same source. It is a simple system with clearly defined rules and generally reliable outcomes.
I agree grizeldatee. I would imagine for the average aspie lying would usually be quite simply unappealing and unnecesarily difficult - I know that's how I tend to feel.
Perhaps not being tied to the instant (and often wrong) decisions about other people based on body language allows aspies to think things through, if that is what you mean by "rational". "Trustworthy", I don't think aspies would be any more or any less trustworthy, except for in relation to basing actions on the above mentioned instant decisions.
Ian, you know you are one of us, but I think you are someone that makes the world understand that aspies are real people. For reasons that we've discussed before, I agree that Capitalism, despite it's flaws, is the least worst method to allocate limited resources. It also happens to be the best hope for aspies.
Batman - I've been reading your posts and you are logical. When you add things to topics, I like what you have to say, it is always well thought out.
Batman:
I never said that you aren't rational, I just said that you are honest. Of course, rationality may be a matter of opinion, while your honesty is prima facie.
So, in my opinion you are rational.
Saint, your hypothesis is only true if your premise (I.E that truth comes from the heart) also holds true, as we know, emotions are produced by and in the brain.
Current science is demonstrating great connection between heart and brain, with neither really operating independently of the other. Heart rhythms affect brain activity. The heart also functions as an endocrine gland that produces chemicals that are vital to brain function. One of the more bizarre research findings demonstrated that when people are in proximity, and particularly if they are touching, their heartbeat signals are registered by each others' brains. People holding hands synchronize brain waves. I've wondered whether this has anything to do with disliking a lot of touching. Anyway .... the point is that both "thinking" and "feeling" are team efforts. There is a new heart-brain institute in Cleveland to specifically address this research area.
Saint, your hypothesis is only true if your premise (I.E that truth comes from the heart) also holds true, as we know, emotions are produced by and in the brain.
If taken literally the statement makes no sense because we now know that the amygdala controls our emotions and other things like the four humours are not responsible for our emotions and light isn't propelled or distorted by ether.
In that sense the saying is more of an idiom than a premise.
I cannot speak for others, but for myself it is a matter of keeping the world simple. People who lie must keep up with more than one version of reality, and which of their associates is aware of which parts of which versions. Makes me tired just thinking about it. I'm doing good to keep up with one version. It's as simple as that -- lying is too much work.
I suspect that the appeal of logic has the same source. It is a simple system with clearly defined rules and generally reliable outcomes.
I agree grizeldatee. I would imagine for the average aspie lying would usually be quite simply unappealing and unnecesarily difficult - I know that's how I tend to feel.
Lying can be aquired by aspies, regardless of the common misconception that "aspies cant lie". The ones of us who can do tend to be more frugal with lying directly. Normally its just a matter of leaving cleverly constructed ambigities in sentences.
Omitting information is not lying, nor is choosing one's words carefully.
Lying can be aquired by aspies, regardless of the common misconception that "aspies cant lie". The ones of us who can do tend to be more frugal with lying directly. Normally its just a matter of leaving cleverly constructed ambigities in sentences.
Omitting information is not lying, nor is choosing one's words carefully.
True, but Aspie's can lie. I often lie during small talk, because I only have a small range of social responses that I know well. For example, if someone asks what I did on the weekend, I often answer "a lot of sleeping in", because I know how to deal with most of the possible fall-out questions that result. If I had told them that I spent the weekend sketching designs for a theoretical electrical hang-glider, I would not have known how to deal with their social questions.
I'm usually truthful to people I can trust to have an interesting conversation, though...
well depends personally i can be more trustworthy but sometimes i can just be a sneaky b******* most of the time im the first one
but sometimes it's necessary, that, and the feds are constantly on my back, so I have over the years, become fairly practised ....
Tell me that this doesn't in fact involve Guy Faulkes or the Scarlet Pimpernel.
"Be he in heaven or be he in hell, that damned elusive Pimpernel".