Aspies For Freedom

I am self diagnosed & having reached the age I have, I would not fit into this category.
However I think that my youngest son who has just turned 17 does.

The psychiatrist said 'high functioning' after a couple of brief visits, but he doesn't live with my son.

He has no other diagnosis, but his attention span is extremely poor, particularly if he doesn't want to listen.

He has a few daily household jobs for which he is paid, but although they are routine he needs to be reminded several times a day to do them.
He also often needs reminding to do things that he does like doing.

His interests are mainly games consoles of which he has most, It's quite hard to fit all of these into his room.

He does quite well at High School, but is in the year behind the one he should be in & receives a lot of support in his lessons.
His handwriting is very much like that of a young child.
He has difficulties with wrist and arm co ordination & manipulation, so any skills which require wrist movement he finds difficult, eating nicely, tying shoe laces etc.

I hope this helps. Smile

I took my time replying as I needed to check out a few things. Smile

aliengirl Wrote:

I know what you mean about psychiatrists not understanding what someone's day to day problems are. They seem to think that how you behave during a 30 min appointment must be exactly how you are all of the time!

Although I see many different things written about psychiatrists, all of our local ones just diagnose & prescribe.
There will be a half hour interview initially, any subsequent ones will be the standard 10 minutes.
When necessary John can 'fake it' for 10 minutes, although he would start to revert before half an hour was up.

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I also need reminding to do things. I have to rely on things like setting alarms in the calendar on my phone and setting reminders in Outlook and using lots and lots of post-it notes in my room to remind me. (I live with an elderly relative who is even more forgetful than me!)

So does he Wink , but it is me who ends up setting alarms to remind us both I also have a large calendar in the kitchen, where every appointment etc is immediately written down.

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I try making lists sometimes, but then they get really long, and I end up putting ridiculous detail on them, and not knowing what to write and what not to write....

I like games consoles too, although I can't afford any at the moment. I do have a computer though, so I can play some games on that, although many of the strategy ones are too difficult for me to understand. I like "shoot-em-up" games best because there are no complicated instructions - you just do as the name says!

I'm not sure what the games are that he plays, but he is obsessive about them & has a huge collection.
He is fortunate that as we aren't well off he receives Educational Maintenance Allowance, he is allowed to spend this money as he likes, we try to advise him not to spend it on cheap things but usually fail, however this week he bought a graphics card ( too cheap ! ) it ruined the motherboard on his computer, so I think that this is the only way that he will learn....rather like the rest of us. Big Grin

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I did well at rote-learning tasks at school but struggled with anything else.

I have co-ordination problems too, especially with fine motor skills. I can't really handwrite that easily, but I can type and find it a lot easier and I try to do as much writing as I can on the computer.
Does your son have a diagnosis of dyspraxia? I got diagnosed with this at 24. It didn't change anything, but it was nice to have a reason for my difficulties with co-ordination.

No he doesn't have a diagnosis of dyspraxia, but I'm pretty sure that you are right that it is likely that he has it, thanks for the suggestion. Cool
after your initial response I researched it & it is quite plain to see. Smile
I doubt that they would bother with a diagnosis since like AS it's untreatable, but it does explain a lot.
He did have physiotherapy some while ago to help with the co ordination, but he wouldn't entertain it & was uncooperative. He doesn't see that he has a problem & as long as he is happy I think that he is right.
We did discuss these issues with the physiotherapist and decided that as he is very easily stressed and becomes anxious, quality of life was more important.

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I totally empathise with the difficulty with shoelaces and eating!
I didn't learn to tie up shoelaces until years after my peers. And I still find it difficult - I really have to focus to be able to do it.

I have got better at eating through practice, but it is still difficult and requires so much concentration for me, and I can only use cutlery if the handles are a certain shape. They need to be flat and / or 'chunky' or I can't grip them or control them properly.

I've tried to use chop-sticks a few times....unsurprisingly this was unsuccessful!! Smile

I still try to advise him with eating methods, but I know that he would refuse to use specialist cutlery even though often the food ends up over him & the floor.

Oddly he like chopsticks for noodles & Chinese take outs, but I think that he uses the pair more like a scoop than in the correct fashion.

For him, velcro fastening shoes are great... no shoelace problems. Big Grin Cool

Everyone is different & as long as he lives in this area he will likley be accepted for how he is rather than how others' think that he should be. Smile

Tigger_the_Wing Wrote:

I have never in my entire life made friends with or admired anyone on the basis of their IQ. I've certainly never asked what people's IQ scores are. It would be silly. As I have said before, a high IQ score means that you are good at the particular test that you sat. In my opinion it has at best a tenuous connection with a person's intelligence, and has no connection whatever with what kind of person they are.

Some of the most 'intelligent' people I have known were pretentious prats. After a fairly rotten time at school I didn't (and don't) care for people who boasted that they had better academic qualifications than me and were therefore superior. Tongue

Or for the ones that were good at sport and gloated at my clumsiness, or effortlessly fashionable and mocked my inability to be well-dressed.

I made friends with people who like people. Who encouraged me to do my best at the things I could do and not compare myself unfavourably with people who could do things that I can't.

I like you, aliengirl and Batman55, because you are both kind; you both write well-thought-out, interesting posts and make me think! I like you both because you come across as pleasant people.

I really could not care less what some tests might tell you about your intelligence. That has no relevence to me whatsoever, and, I suspect, to most other people here. I really think that the establishment of IQ tests is one of the worst things imposed on children. IQ tests are unnecessarily divisive and yet of little, if any, practical use.

I'm pleased that aliengirl is happy with who she is, and I'm sad that Batman55 isn't happy with himself. I wish that I could somehow restore the self-esteem of Batman and the other unhappy people I sometimes see posting here. I wish that I could create a shield around them that would protect them from the nastiness of others.

I've tried to build that resilience into my own kids and I'm sad when other people don't have it.

This is a great post and I wholeheartedly second it.

Pakrat Wrote:

I wish more parents were so tolerant and willing to build up their children's self-esteem.

I'm very interested in this particular sentence because a devastating thing happened a couple of weeks ago......Half term holiday.
I have heard mothers scream at their children ( for no apparent reason ) & have been told by a couple that they hate the school holidays & can't wait for ' the kids going back to school'.
I have heard these kind of remarks ever since I had my children & I truly don't understand this attitude. Why did they have children if they don't want them?
What must the children think, who hear this said of them, in their hearing?
What is this doing to their self esteem?

I have many times in the past, thought that I must be the only person that likes school holidays & enjoys the company of my children.

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Some people have treated me as if I'm unintelligent because sometimes I have to be told three times before I pick up a new concept but once it is in my mind, it stays there.

Much as I wouldn't like to be thought of as ***, I'd rather recognise that I have a few cognitive processing issues and sensory sensitivities than live in denial. That doesn't mean retardation, just being realistic.

I can identify with much of this, although in my case it would be more that I can't grasp a concept due to my mind blanking ( if I'm stressed my mind goes blank ) rather than not processing. I have been accused of stupidity which only makes it worse, but yes I am realistic about it & if I am able I will forewarn people. ( Not often able to though ) Rolleyes

Batman55 Wrote:

Learning disabilities are one thing, mild retardation is another thing entirely.

For example dyslexia is considered a learning disability by most people, however it is not considered mild retardation. I'd like you to make the distinction for yourself before jumping to conclusions, please.

What you may be talking about is learning disability, instead of mild retardation. Dyslexia and dyscalculia are common among Aspies; I suspect I probably have Dyscalculia. But if I concentrate really hard and get interested in Math, I'm able to be as good as the average person. Problem is--Math was never one of my interests.

I am interested in this perception of learning difficulties v retardation.

I suspect ( but may be wrong ) that the 'difference' is between 'English' English & 'American' / other countries English.
When I trained for extra nurse registration I chose Mental Subnormality, my documents state RNMS, yet during my training this became 'non PC' & became Mental Handicap ( all subsequent trainees were RNMH ). A few years down the line, this became 'non PC. the new name was & remains 'Learning Difficulties'...RNLD.

Apart from in the very early days '***' has not been a word used by the in England by the nursing profession, 'learning difficulties' replaced it long ago.

Batman55 Wrote:

I don't understand what you're talking about. I have never read that learning difficulties or learning disabilities are considered under the umbrella of "retardation." I have heard that retardation is considered under the umbrella of retardation, but nothing else.

Can you explain what you mean in the above post, in simpler terms? I really don't get what you are trying to say. I don't know what you mean talking about "RNMS" or "RNMH" or what have you... how do these terms apply to you?

In simple terms.
In England the umbrella term for what you refer to as retardation & other conditions is called ' learning difficulties '.
Within the English Nursing Profession ' *** ' is a word that is not allowed to be used.

Other counties may still used the term ***.

tenaciouscj Wrote:

....... - just the idea of growing up when mentally I still felt (and still feel) like a child.

I thought learning difficulties meant things like having dyslexia and never for a moment believed that I might have some but now I wonder - could things such as semantic-pragmatic disorder (which I'm certain I have) come under learning difficulties?

There are two separate issues here for me.

# 1 I was a child that did physically want to grow up, I was desperate to have all of the female attributes that all of those who I admired had. ( writing this it becomes obvious that I admired older people ).
However mentally I am very much a child in many respects.......and no I am not going to ' grow up ' to suit the perceptions of how the others think I should be.....not any more at least.
As has been said before by others ' acting a part ' takes it's toll in life, one that I am no longer prepared to pay.
The acting is over..... I can & will be free to be me.

# 2 Again, I can only speak for this particular area, but odd things have been happening regarding the Education System & the perception of ' Learning Difficulties ' .
In this area any child who is different & thus may have learning problems is considered to have Learning Difficulties, for instance a child recently moved here from a Europian non English speaking country...the child had an IEP in order to assist him to learn....& quite rightly so.

This does however confuse the concept of 'Learning Difficulties'.

My older son & I are generally ridiculously healthy.
My youngest son has some strange undiagnosed skin condition ( not for want of trying but the doctors don't know what it is ) & something similar to ' cradle cap '.

I think that he also has food addiction.

Lucie1 Wrote:

woman from mars Wrote:

My older son & I are generally ridiculously healthy.

Good to hear you say this woman from mars - but I must admit I am puzzled.

I don't understand why you are puzzled.

Aliengirl asked about physical issues related to autism.

I have a degenerative neurological disease called Syringobulbia, this is something that I have had for 24 years ergo it is an inherent part of me & my personality.

I am physically disabled, but a positive attitude & common sense when wishing to achieve a goal ensures that I will manage one way or another to do it.... skateboards are very useful when wishing to move a heavy object for instance.
Do some work for 15-30 minutes, then take a break, then start again...where there is a will there is a way.

The pain has recently caused some depression which I have had to manage without medication due to abnormal reaction to same....likely an autistic issue, but the first time that I have been exposed to such.

By ridiculously healthy I mean that I do not suffer from any dietary or skin problems, no hormonal issues, no pregnancy difficulties & generally speaking I have a good immune system.
I do occasionally catch the odd bug which my youngest son will bring home from school but I consider this to be completely normal.

I am rapidly approaching 58 years & apart from the constraints put upon me by the above disease, I am more physically able than many half of my age ie. I can stand on my hands.....not for long but I can do it Cool Big Grin
I seriously hope to be as fit as this as long as I live.

aliengirl Wrote:

I am verbal 70-80% of the time - when I am stressed or tired (or even if I've just been around people a lot) I can become involuntarily non-berbal with only little warning!

Aliengirl, if you don't mind me intruding a moment on your thread, I've been reading it with great interest and find your writings fascinating. I'd like to ask for elaboration. When you say you become involuntarily non-verbal.. what does that mean exactly? Is it that you can't remember the words you want or does it feel like your thoughts are full of sentences exactly the way you want to say them but it seems like there is a complicated procedure you can't remember how to put together to turn them into audible speech and get them "out" or.. do you mean something else entirely?

Lucie1 Wrote:

no - I was puzzled, that's all. I knew that wfm had a serious degenerative health condition that gives ongoing pain, causes depression and makes it so she is unable to work. To hear someone with this condition describe themselves as generally ridiculously healthy puzzled me - that's all - not a big deal. I also said it was good to hear wfm described her physical health as being ridiculously healthy.

It may be "not a big deal", but it is Disablism.

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Is there a parallel between being black, and being disabled?Scope's impressive new campaign, Time to get equal, would have us believe there is. They define "disablism" as: "discriminatory, oppressive or abusive behaviour arising from the belief that disabled people are inferior to others". This isn't far from the Macpherson report's definition of institutionalised racism: "processes, attitudes and behaviour which amount to discrimination through unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping". The parallel between disablism and racism is intentional. Scope have even signed up Nelson Mandela to promote diversity and equality - and Scope itself.

These are facts:-

My Disease does not cause me to have depression. My depression is a recent development and is caused by other factors.

I have worked 12 hour shifts mostly full time for 34 years despite it ( 24 years was an error); ergo it alone does not cause me to be unable to work.
Physical work increases the body's natural endorphin levels & thus aids pain relief.

Sir Douglas Bader who had both of his legs amputated & flew aeroplanes in WW ll, would have considered himself 'ridiculously healthy'.
"In 1976 Bader was knighted by Queen Elizabeth for his services to amputees, "so many of whom he had helped and inspired by his example and character."
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/bader/bader.htm

I imagine that the competitors in the Disabled Olympics may well describe themselves as 'ridiculously healthy', many of whom have spinal injuries or lack several limbs.
http://www.apparelyzed.com/london-paralympic-games/
I sincerely hope that this dispels any further perplexity.

aprilbaker Wrote:

woman from mars Wrote:

His handwriting is very much like that of a young child.
He has difficulties with wrist and arm co ordination & manipulation, so any skills which require wrist movement he finds difficult, eating nicely, tying shoe laces etc.

Maybe he has Disgraphia? I'm not sure the spelling is right, but my bother has that. It makes hand coordination difficult, and even speaking and reacting...

Thanks very much aprilbaker I'm grateful for any input. Smile

I hadn't heard of this, but having looked into it, I think that dyspraxia probably fits him better as he has no problems with spelling & several other symptoms of Dysgraphia, although the two seem to have much in common.

aliengirl Wrote:

The few relationships I have had have consisited of someone looking for a person to use and / or abuse and me not realising this until things had become very bad.

My friendships in general tend to be about people wanting something from me - like someone to spend time with until they get better friends, or someone to help them with things etc. and once they get what they want they move on from me. I just get discarded and am never seen as a 'real' friend or as someone who is of any genuine value.

When I have occasionally asked people why they treat me in this way they say that it is because I am 'hard work' or because I've 'got problems' and their attitude seems to be 'well, what did you expect?'.

I just wondered if you or anyone else here had similar experiences?
Are you able to find real friends / relationships or do you seem to bumble from one negative situation to another?

And how do you know when you are being used? I lack the skills to tell this - it is only when things get really bad (e.g. when I have had to involve the police!)

So, feel free to share any experiences!

I have always been in this situation.

There is a thread regarding this issue:- Manipulators and Charmers: how do you deal with them?

I found this advice & the book helpful:-

Max the Bear Wrote:

The best book I've found on dealing with manipulators is called "In Sheep's Clothing" by George K. Simon http://www.ajchristopherandcompany.com/products.htm

I bought the book from Amazon, but I imagine that it will be available from a public library.

happy birthday

A True Monotheist Wrote:

9) Is there a kind of covert NT movement against us? Another forum participant has suggested some concepts along these lines that may seem outlandish. However, I have often suspected that there is some unconscious, albeit perhaps not "telepathic," knowledge among NT's that I am somehow different, to be opposed or else to be laughed at. Now, to be sure, I am not labeling all NT's as conspirators. What I am suggesting is that we carry unconscious responses within us that can be activated by the right person. We just "hate" some person, and we do not know why. Have you ever wondered why you hate someone? Perhaps there would be less hatred if people would simply ask why they hate.

You and your paranoia, eh?  8Magus8 rubbing off on you?

No, I've had neurotypical friends in the past.  There have also been times when I would have been "included" with NTish people, had I only been able to read the signals that they were sending correctly.  Now that I know I have AS, I've looked back into the database of my past and saw that positive signals have been sent to me, but I simply didn't notice them.

I've not seen convincing evidence to suggest NTs can read minds while Aspies cannot.  This looks like a fantasy, to me.

People with manipulative personalities, or bullies, will notice sensitivity or poor social skills and take advantage of this.  That's pretty much the extent of what you're seeing.

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