I just don't know what to say to this. I'm disgusted, appalled, sickened htat any one would/could think or killing ther child just because they were autistic. I know sometimes I get stressed and can't handle Evan but when even then he is my little boy, my first born and I love him to pieces I could never envision life without him.
Thats just sick!
Maybe there's a danger of the Slippery Slope. But I'm much more afraid of being told, "Tough ***, you've just gotta suffer".
I'm just not willing to put myself through a torture chamber to save some handicapped child who *might* want to live.
Evidently a lot more people feel as I do, namely that they fear the process of being disabled and in pain more than they fear death. Isn't that why the euthanasia laws of Holland were recently copied in Belgium?
Incidentally, the people of Belgium and Holland suffered more from the Nazis than we Americans did!
One more thing: I heard that the interest in palliative care has evaporated in the Netherlands. Maybe few people *do* want to live if disabled and in pain for a long period of time. So, perhaps, what has to be done is to keep people from getting into that situation -- or to postpone it for as long as humanly possible -- and the heck with palliative care!
One more thing: When I wanted a vasectomy, I was likewise told: "No, you'll change". I wanted to have sex without fear of being dragged into the child-raising business. So what? To make a long story short, they were willing to do it for me in a place outside the USA. And after some 35 years I still don't regret it.
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"Incidentally, the people of Belgium and Holland suffered more from the Nazis than we Americans did! "
I presume that you are talking about the USA there, not the UK.
Most Americans live in the USA and not the UK or am I missing something (easily possible!!!)?
Well there were 1000's of US soldiers in Europe fighting the war, but fighting did not actually take place in the USA, except for Pearl Harbour of course.
I think that was the point of that comment, i.e. Europe was far more affected because, while there were American troops fighting, Americans overall (in particularly civilians) were not as affected as for example people in Belgium or Holland becausethey were in the middle of the war.
One more thing: I heard that the interest in palliative care has evaporated in the Netherlands. Maybe few people *do* want to live if disabled and in pain for a long period of time. So, perhaps, what has to be done is to keep people from getting into that situation -- or to postpone it for as long as humanly possible -- and the heck with palliative care!
Don't you see that yours is a flawed argument? The interest in palliative care has evaporated because now all the old and sick people are being killed. The ones that don't wish to be killed are not looked after any more.
That is the same thing as all Down's Syndrome babies being aborted, so now they have stopped looking for a cure.
It's so much cheaper and more convenient to kill people and get them out of the way, than to actually care for them and love them despite being a burden, isn't it.
Ok, thanks.
I must be missing the general point then, how does that relate to euthanasia?
I think it relates more to the general attitude towards suffering (or definition thereof), as the Netherlands (who the poster explained "suffered more" [directly] in WW II than people living in the USA) have legalised assisted suicide, so the argument that a lower "threshold" for deciding when someone is suffering too much to have to stay alive may not be the reason why some European countries have legalised euthanisa and/or assisted suicide.
(Incidentally Switzerland, which did not suffer any direct occupation etc. during WW II, also has legalised assisted suicide so perhaps it is more a liberal attitude in general, rather than anything to do with how a society defines suffering, that influences whether or not these things are legalised)
Don't you see that yours is a flawed argument? The interest in palliative care has evaporated because now all the old and sick people are being killed. The ones that don't wish to be killed are not looked after any more.
A few friends of my family are Dutch citizens. Those who want to be kept alive at all costs do have that option; and one person they know did do just that. So evidently if a lot of the sick and old are being killed, it's because they *want* to be killed -- that they think it's an attractive alternative to what life has in store for them.
If they feel that death is preferable to what life has in store for them, then it could be that not enough is being done to make life more bearable -- at least for *some* people. As I said in a previous post, the emphasis shouldn't be on keeping people alive who want to die but to keep them from getting into that situation.
When it comes to the whole debate on euthanasia I have read it all. The fact is that there is no way to kill oneself without a lot of pain and without a very substantial risk of ending up still alive and a whole lot worse off. One who jumped off the Chalk Cliff of Dover landed on a ledge and quadripligic. And there are PLENTY who still live after shooting themselves in the head or jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge!
Derek Humphrey, made an amazing amount of money telling people that there is a way out, when there really isn't. IN his book "Final Exit", he admitted that some of the methods he recommended in his previous books didn't work or were far from being fool proof.
Dr. Timothy Quill or Rochester, New York was on TV a time or two. Like Dr. Kevorkian, he has been willing to provide suicide assistance; but somehow he doesn't get arrested -- primarily, I think, because he did it without the fanfare. But his patient load is full and he doesn't have room for one more patient. What does THAT tell you about what people *really* want?
I think a big problem is, that in societies where euthanasia is legal, the old and sick people are being made to feel useless and a burden, if they decide to stick around and to die without euthanasia. If the mental torture gets too much, and they feel people resent them for hanging around, sure, they'll go for euthanasia.
All my life it was very obvious I wasn't appreciated for who I am, and have felt like wanting to be dead from the age of eight. But that isn't because I don't want to live in principle, but because living with people who mentally abuse me is torture. If I was treated right, I would love life even with the problems I have with fibromyalgia, AS and TS.
And the people who come to doctors who provide euthanasia would likely commit suicide anyway, but with the knowledge they are going to succeed. It's just suicide, done in an efficient way. That doesn't prove that euthanasia is a good idea as such.
And this 'doctor' calls the people he kills patients? I think that is quite macabre.
Sorry folks, but I don't support assisted suicide or euthanasia in any way, shape, or form. I will not argue my opinion on this any further either.
MrCoffee