Aspies For Freedom

As you know Evan is now at home with me full time.  So this means that he has to go places with me that a 9 year old wouldn't normally be going to in school time, ie the grocery store etc...

I have become increasingly aware of peoples' looks and attitudes towards Evan when we are out.  OKay so his behavoiur sometimes leaves lttle to be desired but on the whole mostly he is pretty well behaved (considering he's aspie).  I still get lots of funny looks from people as if to say "Can't you conmtrol that kid?" "Whats up with him?" "Why isn't that woman doing anything about that kids behaviour?"  Ican't yell at him all the time to behave, to him he is behaving.

I took him to see the chuckle brothers last saturday evening , which he thoroughly enjoyed.  A lot of kids were running around the theatre at the end (while we were all waiting to see them).  Evan put a drink bottle (plastic) on one of the steps, and a woman told him not to do that.  Whether it was the way that she said it or maybe I'm just getting over sensitive I don't know anymore but I lost it with her.  I told her "my sons autistic and he doesn't reralise that what he did wasn't the most sensible thing to do but he does his best.  You try raising him"

This attitude seem sto be common place.  Have been told, "He doesn't look autistic"  what does anautistic child look like?  It is a neural brainwave pattern disruption (So it has been claimed)  how can you identify it by looking?

Sorry Had to rant. :lol:

You said that in front of your son?   :-(

I understand how stressed you must feel about having to take your son everywhere with you.  It's hard for a mother to cope with; I went through that myself when my kids were small and my husband had to work late hours.  My kids often got hyper in public places when I had errands to do, and it was frustrating.

My mother also had problems taking me to public places when I was small.  I often got overstimulated and hyper in bright, noisy, crowded stores and other places.  I was kicked out of a few schools before I learned how to settle down and behave in class.

Although my mother had to deal with quite a few obnoxious comments from strangers, she never told them I was autistic, and she never made excuses for my misbehavior.  (I wasn't even aware that I was autistic until very recently, although my parents knew.)

Even when a parent has reason to feel upset and frustrated, it's necessary to watch what's said in front of a child.  I know you didn't mean it this way, but when your son heard what you said to the woman at the theatre, he could have gotten the message, "Because I'm autistic, I can't do anything sensible, even when I do my best, and my mother wishes she didn't have the bother of raising me."

It's important to give children positive messages about their competence and worth.  To a great extent, we become what we are told we are.

:o Im completely understanding of why cleankittycat did what she did by saying that her son was autistic. I do the same, people are only too happy to judge and make snidy comments to children ( yes children who also should be treated with respect although alot of adults out there are too happy to make awful comments about your child )
these people are ignorant and do not think and therefore by making them aware of a childs autism/aspergers it may make them think before they make another comment to another parent or child and therefore get the understanding across, isnt that what we all want ?? understanding and respect from society ?? i certainly do for my ASD child.
as for not mentioning in front of your child, well they are attending a school where they know they are different, all the family members know of their difficulties and there is nothing to be ashamed off for being on the autistic spectrum or with aspergers, so wheres the problem, no mother is going to say that in the hope of putting their child down but yes we do get stressed iots very hard and i think that it needs to be seen from this side. i fully sympathise with you cleankittycat and i have also been there and still am !! you are doing a great job !!! and no one should critisise you for your ways of coping and dealing with your son on a day to day basis.  :-(

Julieanne, I didn't mean to suggest that there was, but I do think children are likely to feel ashamed of their autism if their parents often tell people that they can't behave sensibly because they're autistic.  That gives the child the idea that being autistic is a bad thing... it's like those T-shirts you mentioned in another thread, the ones that say "I'm not naughty, I'm autistic."

We need to talk about our kids' strengths, to find ways to inspire their self-confidence, to help them believe that they do have a bright future.

cleankittycat,

I know exactly how you feel.  I am a stay at home mom of a 5 year old Aspling son.  I also Homeschool him as well, and anyone who hasn't done this has no idea how challenging it can be.  Aaron (my son) and I spend a lot of time out of the house, which can be very difficult for both of us at times. :-(

Just the other day we were at a coffee shop and he was trying to reach into the tip jar.  I was talking to him calmly trying to explain how we don't reach into the tip jar-even if we just want to look at the coins when a woman snatched the jar away from him forcefully and yelled "That's not for you Buster!"...how rude!    I almost had it under control until she did this, then "all hell broke loose".  He had an instant meltdown and started screaming that he "only wanted to see when the pennies were made", the nasty woman looked at him like he was a spoiled brat.  I told her she should have let me parent my son, I also explained how he has AS and that reading dates on pennies is his perseveration.  I don't think she cared or believed me. She made me so angry that if I didn't have to rush out of the store to calm the meltdown I would have reported her to the manager. :mad:

On the other hand, we were at the library once and the librarian was being rude to my son because he was trying to pull the receipt out of the printer (he is fascinated by receipts-not sure why) before it had finished printing.  I pointed out to her that he has AS and that she shouldn't be so rude to him.   She immediately apologized and thanked me for explaining this to her.  Everytime we go to the library now she is much more understanding of his behavior and treats him very kindly, and even calls him by name and says hello.  :razz:

I have had many experiences like these since Aaron was about 2 years old.  Before his diagnosis I thought I was a bad parent and everyone was right to give me dirty looks.  Now I have come to understand the truth and I try to pass that knowledge on whenever the opportunity presents itself. Sometimes this helps and sometimes it doesn't but explaining AS to people makes me feel like I am doing something beneficial.   My dream is that someday (maybe when I have Aspie Grandkids) people will be familiar with AS and not treat Aspies unkindly or judge the parents so harshly.  We can only hope.   :roll:

Hang in there,

Crystal  

I've had the same dilemma...what do you do when people treat your child unkindly? Or give you dirty looks.

I thought about using those cards...you know the ones that say "My child is autistic, what's your excuse" sort of thing. But it really riles me to think of giving out personal information to a stranger, and ESPECIALLY to a stranger who is already standing there with an angry judgmental look on their face. The example of the librarian was a good deal all around, but some people just aren't that understanding. What would you do if you told someone your child is autistic and they just turned their nose up and used it as a further excuse to feel superior? That's happened to me before...and I can tell you it makes you want to kill.

Recently my 6 year old 38 Kilo son (that's about 82 or 83 lbs for you Yanks) and the height of the average 9 year old, ran into someone's shopping cart at the grocery store, almost tipping it over. He was very sorry and apologized, but the man was angry and started calling him names "YOU STOOPID BOY" is the one that really angered my husband. My husband told me afterwards that he was trapped at the checkout and couldn't get around to where our son was...and the man was looming over him in a very threatening way.

What would you do?

My husband threw a magazine and smacked the idiot in the back of the head. Said idiot exited stage left immediately.

I guess that's not a procedure to recommend, but in that situation it seemed like the only thing to do :shock: It doesn't hurt that my husband is as big (for his age? LOL) as my son, but honestly it could easily have escalated from there.

There's no clear cut answer for how to deal with this sort of situation, is there? If someone comes up with one, PLEASE let me know!

:lol:   Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do...

I completely ignored dirty looks from strangers. I figured that if they were so easily bothered by kids acting like kids, their grumpy attitude was their problem, not mine.

As for people complaining when my kids did something wrong, I would usually just tell them "Sorry," and then calmly explain the situation to the child while walking away.  For example, when my son was 4 years old, he picked some flowers from a neighbor's garden, intending to give her a pretty bouquet.  She got upset about it and yelled at him to stay out of her yard.  I told him that she had planted the flowers and didn't want them to be picked because she liked looking at them in the garden.  I said that the best flowers to pick were dandelions, because they grow everywhere, and no one cares if you pick dandelions!

Some people just have a cranky disposition in general and think that kids, any kids, are a nuisance.  I always thought it was best to avoid arguing with such people, thus giving the child an example of how to walk away calmly when in such situations.

edit: I didn't know anything about AS when my son was that age, and I assumed he was normal because I behaved much the same way as a child.  Even if I had known, though, I wouldn't have talked about it with strangers, not just because it's none of their business (although that's true too), but because I don't view childish ignorance and carelessness as 'symptoms' of a 'disorder,' and I wouldn't have wanted to give that impression.  Yes, our kids take a bit longer to mature socially and emotionally, but that doesn't mean that every time they misbehave or make a mistake, the autism is to blame.  Sometimes NT kids pick flowers from other people's gardens, carelessly bump into shopping carts, or fail to throw away plastic bottles.  Shouldn't our kids be able to make mistakes, too, without being treated as if they are defective because of it?

SassafrasTea:
I am sorry that happened to your son.  As for how I would deal with it...I would have told my son that some people are mean and have no manners and that he should apologize and walk away.  I would also explain that people like that man are very unhappy people and will probably never be nice to anyone.  All while doing this I would be sure the man could hear what I was saying.  That's usually my way of dealing with nasty people that I don't want to confront...insulting them without insulting them.  Of course, I was not in that situation so this solution is just "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" (is that the right use of the term...my husband uses it a lot).  Also, the cards you mentioned seem like a great idea and I've considered using the cards that say "You noticed my sons behavior and I noticed yours..." I'm not sure that a stranger would even take the card when I try to give it to them...esp. if they are irrate a**holes.  :roll:

BonnieVentura:
I just want to make it clear (because I sense that I was misunderstood) that I only inform strangers about AS when my son clearly displays symptoms of AS.  Like when he was reaching in the tip jar- that was a perseveration; or when he was pulling on the receipt- that was because he loves to see the receipt feeding from the printer.  Most of his Aspie perseverations revolve around money which is almost always a problem when I'm shopping.  People drop their change and he picks it up to look at the dates, people are paying for their purchases and he tries to see the letters on the dollar bills by reaching for them.  Normal kids don't do this and people don't understand why my son is doing it...that's when I explain AS.  

Crystal

I didn't intend my previous post as a reply to yours, Crystal, and I understand what you're saying about the pennies.  I had the same interest in pennies and their different dates and designs when I was about that age. My parents sometimes had to remind me that it was rude to look at someone else's money without asking permission, but they seemed to be pretty understanding about it, probably because they both collected coins as children, too!

I have a much broader view of "normal" than most people.  It comes from growing up in an aspie family, reading biographies of famous aspies, and reading fiction with plenty of aspie-ish characters when I was young.  It never even occurred to me, until I read about AS, that anyone might think there was something wrong with having strong interests!  I always thought that a focused mind was a useful and healthy trait, found among the most productive scientists, inventors, artists, et cetera.

I agree with you that society is woefully ignorant and needs to be educated, but it seems to me that giving explanations in the context of 'symptoms' just reinforces society's prejudiced belief that anything different must be wrong or diseased.  I understand it can be hard to find more positive ways to explain differences, and I hope that I haven't come across as too critical in this thread; I certainly wasn't trying to attack anyone personally.

I know several people who have broken bones (two a leg & one an arm)  falling down flights of stairs due to obstacles being put on there that should not have been there in the first place.

It may seem trivial to you but for the person who slips on the blooming thing and breaks their bones (especially if it's something transparent like a plastic bottle, rather than a clearly visible object) I don't think it would be.

Big @#$%in deal indeed...

And even if nobody hurts themselves, you can't start early enough to teach kids that littering is wrong.

I can see your points, and I totally agree that strangers should not start telling off or cautioning (or even threatening!) kids - although personally I would add "unless there is very good reason" (ex. an unsupervised kid is throwing eggs at a car or building or harming a person or animal, or he or she is playing in a dangerous area or with something that could endanger them).

Personally I would approach the parent first, if they are present, unless the child is doing something REALLY dangerous (and there is no time to talk to the parent first!). I would probably say something like "Excuse me, are you aware that your child has just done XXX", or I'd ask them to pick up the item if they had thrown it away or put it down in a dangerous area. I do however think that older children should probably be addressed directly - after all they are people, too, and might react better if they are treated as individuals rather than only spoken to via their parents.

However, I am a bit confused by your post - first you state that it should not be up to the public to tell off a kid when they do something wrong. (I agree with that, as long as the parent is present and has good reason not to react, eg. they are distracted, struggling with another child or did not see what their kid did. I also do not think kids should be told off for little things like not walking perfectly, not looking at people etc. I am really talking about things where either property gets damaged or people or animals or plants either get hurt or could potentially get hurt)

But then you say that if parents FAIL to do so and to teach their kids not to misbehave, then the responsibility falls to the public.

But if you do not agree with the public telling off the kids, how else are they supposed to fulfil that responsibility?

I totally agree with that, although I must say that it is perhaps more important to try and figure out why the parents are negligent in the first place.

In the UK they introduced fines and prison sentences for parents whose kids persistently play truant, but the first Mum to have to go to prison after not paying the fines was actually struggling with drug addiction and possibly other problems. She's getting treatment now but if authorities just punish her for what her kids get up to, without trying to solve the cause of the problems that cause the neglect in the first place, it won't really enable or encourage her to get her act and her kids' act together.

I agree that when parents fail it puts the burden on society, Lili Marlene, but foster care and institutions aren't the solution; usually they just screw up the kids even more.  We need to have more advice and resources available for young parents before they start to have problems.  It doesn't make sense that although young people are expected to go to school for many years to learn academics, very few people take even the simplest classes on how to be a parent, and there are some who don't even know that parenting classes exist.

That is true to an extent, Amy; but also, other people are being encouraged to claim that previously wouldn't have. I can't recall the exact details, something to do with working family credits. So, families with incomes of nearly £40k a year get government help. The overall net impact is to put more people in a position where they can be bribed come election time; although there will be some losers, too.

But that's not the main point I was making. I was trying to say that the government should keep it's nose out of people's lives when it comes to issues such as raising kids. This type of meddling just encourages people to look to the state for an answer to everything. It's not good for our society when people can not take responsibility for their own lives. Anyway, the government hardly set a good example; look at that Blunkett bloke! Then there's the cabinet minister's son drug dealing! And the advice is seldom sound: remember there was no harm in letting your kids eat beef from cattle with BSE! :-(

Yes, a balance must be struck. We should be careful, however, of continuing further down the road of "the state knows best". The statistics you quote are tragic, but how many lives are wrecked by the the unnecessary intervention of government agencies in family lives simply because the parents don't fit the politically-correct mould that the government states all 'good' people should. How many have their children removed simply on the basis of hearsay? It happens.

What I see is that in trying to find a solution to an insoluble problem we create further problems. You will never stop child abuse completely. Like you say, a balance must be struck somewhere between the abusive parents causing the suffering and the apparatus of the state doing the same. There are many other similar issues that spring to mind. They all follow the same pattern: we end up stuck in a cycle where people cry for the government to act against every possible injustice; the government pandering to this then creates the illusion it can solve problems when in fact it just creates them.