Aspies For Freedom

Possibly off-topic but, human blood is considered a biohazard to those that work with it. I think urine is considered a biohazard as well, but not considered nearly so dangerous.

Also, not that I know much about this, but I read in Temple Grandin's book "thinking in pictures" that she basically works to create equipment that kills cows without stress.

Err... lets put something on-topic in here.... The last time I heard "yay, separation of church and state is really important" was a few years ago, the when I went to a christian church. It is a very big deal to certain groups of christians. Of course, it doesn't really help that more than half the reason they want this is so they don't have to be okay with other religions or pray with christians who aren't from their particular sect.

Err... I'm wasn't suggesting anything about the topic. I was just trying to relate what a certain group of christians think. It isn't so much exactly what the people think as what their groups theology states. It is a group of lutherans, so not seventh day adventists, though that is an interesting note.

The concept is...  Basically, since this church says you can't have 'fellowship' with those who aren't really christians, and you don't know if any of the other churches are really christian or not, one cannot pray, worship, basically do anything remotely religious with anyone who isn't a member of their church.

So the suggestion of anything remotely religious- such as the ten commandments posted in a courthouse, or allowing children to pray in school- in a place where members of this church cannot avoid it, is a big problem.

To clear me, if possible, I am not a member of the above described church. I hope not to discuss it much further.

Christianity is wrong because it's made up fantasy :S

Oi! I'm a christian (roman-catholic to be precise). so Could you be a bit more respectfull?

Love you,

OK?

sorry, there are no icons for hugs and kisses.

I personally have seen nothing that Tigger has said to be offensive to anyone.
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To anyone who believes the contrary.......I think that there are a few on this forum.

It is perfectly possible to disagree with someone and not dislike them.
Many people enjoy a heated debate...this how we mentally evolve & learn from others, not sweetly agreeing with all that is said by all.

Should offense be taken by a person's opinions being disagreed with by another....that is tough.....the offended one would be better not participating in an argument / debate.

This of course is entirely different from a one sided rant where the person ranting is flinging intentional and hurtful insults at all who dare to disagree with them in any way whatsoever.

I agree with the concept of separation between church and state. If not separated, a system of mysticism and deeply held convictions would dominate over logic and a system of laws. The non-taxed economy of the church would vie for power against other churchs like the Mormons of the old American West.

However, in the Constitution nowhere is there to be found a separation of church and state.

It is a doctrine, a belief nowhere codified, and vaguely referred to in some court cases.

Actually, assuming that a system of mysticism and deeply held convictions would normatively dominate over logic shows my prejudice against such mysticism and deeply held convictions, and perhaps, a fear of that which I, myself, do not comprehend in the sense that I do not feel it.

Also labelling your religion as "a system of mysticism and deeply held convictions" is also prejudicial in that it is an attempt to neatly quantify and categorise that which someone else holds dear as merely their system.

In that case, well,

sorry.

Yet, "noone expects the Spanish Inquisition"

I know, I'm bad.

But, there are some valid points to be brought up concerning religion.

For example, most in America assume that the separation of church and state is codified, or found somewhere in the Constitution. This is not true.

Also, many people are quick to cut down the other party's religion without consideration of the cultural, philanthropic, existential, political importance that religions serve for their adherents.

The thread title, "why it is wrong", is specifically loaded against Christianity, and by extrapolation, against all religions in general.

Much of what is said in the old Testament is derived from Hammur-rabbi's code as well as Zoroastrianism. Often it is referred to as the "Old Covenant", that being with the original peoples of the Mid-East. Some things are to be taken literally as in the case of tribal conflicts, stonings, etc, while some things are allegorical in nature. Two of every kind of animal could not have possibly fit on the ark.

"I believe in what I can see" from "Mr. Monk and the Psychic".

So and so begat so and so and lived 120 years and so forth. In middle eastern history there was a sense of time but chronologies were greatly embellished based upon the importance and station of the Alpha male in question.

Metaphor, allegories, and indeed fable, should not be taken too literally. I personally don't believe that all spirituality or resultant morality should be thrown out as a consequence, but that appears to be the trend in Western societies.

(Just coming back on topic for a moment, hope you don't mind....)

A long time ago I dispised Christianity, and so like any debunker I did a great deal of thorough research on the subject.  For the brief first time I attended University I took religion where we studies christianity for the first 3 months.  During that time I used all the knowledge I had amassed to embarrass visiting lecturers who couldn't answer my criticism of their religion, and the classroom with the usual lecturers became a subtle battleground that was charged with tension.

As a final coup de grace I won an argument between a high ranking churchman - proving his christ was a straw man that had no actual historical fact behind it and that the entire religion was fatally flawed.  In my moment of triumph I looked around at the faces of my classmates, whom most were trainee priests or people who had depended upon their faith in the worst times of their lives and who could have quoted the bible backwards to me.  Their expressions made me want to weep for what I had did to them.

Christianity and the figure of christ may have no real basis in historical fact as the church teaches.  Christianity may be divisive, and has been the diving motivation for some fanatics to do silly things.  But ultimately - Christians are not bad people, and their religion has it's roots in a hope and faith in the goodness of each other, and even though it's not perfect - neither am I, and I sincerely regret that time of extremism.

Don't give a damn if anyone converts, that's not my intent, I understand just how many agnostics and atheists post here, etc., but given the nature of this thread, bear with me for quoting my guru and master, Meher Baba, but what He says IS what is happening now all over the world, set in motion by him actually:

THE NEW ERA OF TRUTH AND LOVE
Meher Baba

The organized religions of the world often fail to express the real vision of those who have been the fountainhead of inspiration for their very coming into existence. Dogmas and beliefs, rituals and ceremonies, can never be the essence of true spiritual life. When religion has become merely a matter of external rituals and ceremonies, it has become a cage for the soul. Nor does it help very far to change one religion for another. It is like going from one cage to another. If religion does not help man to emancipate the soul from spiritual bondage and realize God, it has no useful purpose to serve. Then it is time that religion should go to make room for God!

I am, therefore, not interested in founding a new religion. The world is already divided by numberless sects, based upon dogmas and beliefs. I have not come to give another cage for man, but to impart to the world the illimitable Truth. The world needs awakening and not mere verbal instruction; it needs the freedom and the amplitude of divine life, and not the superficiality of mechanized and pompous forms; it needs love, and not the displays of power.

The world task ahead of me is particularly creative. Really speaking, none of you have to receive divinity from me; but what I have to give is the knowledge and experience of the Oneness of us all.

Man will be weaned away from the allurements of the ego-life. He shall come into full inheritance of his own divinity and know himself to be none other than the supreme God Himself; and his heart shall be unlocked so as to release the dynamic love divine. Divine love knows no decay, fear or corruption, because it is illumined by the understanding that all life is One. Let those who are alive to the real values hearken to this call of mine; they will have an ample share in bringing into existence the New Era of Truth and Love.


LORD MEHER, Vol. 7 & 8, p. 2985, Bhau Kalchuri

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I agree with you. All the avatars- Zoroaster (1st historical one), Ram, Krishna, Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, Meher Baba- are really just one soul, the Christ conscious, the Godman, whatever you want to call him so all religious wars are really ludicrous and just so much nitpicking when viewed in this light. I can't take life very seriously anymore as a result. Life's such a mighty joke really!

Baba used to say that the atheist or agnostic, if he lives a good life, an honest life, is superior to the most learned, pompous religious bigot (or words to that effect).

Om namah shivaja!

Ellen