Aspies For Freedom

That's exactly the sort of "I am a Person of Privilege" attitude that gives christians a bad name.

The Roman Catholic church is not in the business of respecting other people, so don't expect any in return.

have a nice holier-than-thou day!

Except that the Catholic Church is in no way oppressed. If you don't understand what oppression means, read my signature. The Catholic Church is an oppressor, and people are in no way required to "respect" those who oppress them.

Are we getting closer to understanding the difference?

Chris, why do you ask a question when you've consistently demonstrated that you are totally unwilling to learn?

Do you really not know anything about the Catholic church positions vis a vis women and gay people?

As a Highly Educated Sociologist, you should be more aware and knowledgeable.

Chris, all you are saying is "As a male heterosexual, I think what the church says and does regarding women and gay people is not all that bad."

Of course that's what you think. Of course you want to redefine oppression away from the authentically oppressed and equate it with somebody making a rude remark in the elevator. There is no power to oppress without structural dominance. There may be ability to offend, but there is no power to oppress. What kind of sociology did you study?

This is why discussion with you is utterly pointless.

You revert back to "we can't weasel out of biblical literalism just because we don't like it" even though it was clearly proven in another thread that you DO weasel out of biblical literalism when you don't like it.

As for your condescending and stupid "Is the earth round?  Does earth orbit the sun?" I would point out that the literal biblical answer to both questions is "no."

Now start weaseling.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth_flat.htm

http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/Flat_Earth.htm

http://www.infidels.org/library/magazine...lat90.html

http://fayfreethinkers.com/tracts/flatearth.shtml

Let the weaseling commence!

Oppression is systemic, not individual. The oppression is on the basis of "the label" and what one individual says or does to another individual can't change that.

If we want to change the topic to "it's nice for nice people to be nice," we can do so. But it will not alter systemic oppression.

Every racist, every sexist, every homophobe, every anti-semite will have a story about 'my best friend" who is black, about the gay uncle that they treat almost as if he were human, about the jewish writer whose book they enjoyed. There are always those individual "exceptions." But it doesn't change oppression -- it just gives the racist/sexist/etc an excuse to pretend they are not part of a system of oppression, and deny their prejudices.

Well, you can say that, of course, but it makes no sense and is absolutely insupportable. You can hit the keys that make the words appear, but it is simply not true. I would love to hear you present your point in some way beyond quoting some startlingly ignorant lyrics from a little pop ditty.

Oppression is operated via the levers of power -- social, economic, cultural power. Only the groups who have access to those levers can oppress.  

Did you seriously get a masters degree in sociology without learning how oppression works? How?

That's very appealing and idealistic, but not at all true. You're not talking about oppression. You may be talking about prejudice, which is not the same thing -- and even in that case there is (unfortunately) not much truth in what you're saying.

We all know the "he's one of the good ones" syndrome. A racist may befriend a certain sort of black person whom he considers to be 'not like those other n*****s" -- because it's much easier to grant exceptionality to 'one of the good ones" than you deeply challenge one's prejudices against "those others."

I've had people say to me 'but you're not one of those 'faggy' gay guys." This is usually said as if it were a compliment -- as if i should be somehow grateful that they (the esteemed heterosexuals) were bestowing upon me some dispensation, granting me some superiority over those faggots. Because part of the privilege of being in the Superior Class is that you can grant such individual and isolated exemption from the stigma of being one of those.

There are many Obama supporters who see him as being 'technically black" but not one of those blacks -- so he's 'okay' -- okay meaning an honorary almost-white man.

We needn't look beyond the autistic spectrum to see this practice at work -- the "high functioning aspie" may be seen as damn-near-NT and therefor superior to one of those autistics.

So the 'I met an acceptable gay person, black person, AS person, Jew, whatever" thing can have absolutely no impact on prejudice, and very rarely has any profound impact. It takes much more than that to overcome the deeply rooted prejudices we grow up with.

And even when individual prejudice is reduced or overcome, that doesn't change the systemic oppression that is embedded in the dominant culture.

Strong-arming and oppression are, at best, fourth cousins, six times removed. Both deal with a power inequality, but they are not even close to synonyms.

If anyone is legitimately interested in the topic, this is a good resource: http://www.beyondintractability.org/acti...p?nid=2384

Note particularly the essays on using persuasion and power to overcome oppression.

How was that "without domination"?

Yes, that repulses me. "Oh, if only the Great White Father will approve of me, his treasured blessing will lift me from my degraded state of Negritude."

Vomit.

Yetti, it's clear you don 't know what you're talking about. The conservative/Republican/neo-con establishment has consistently governed against the interests of black people for decades. I can "fathom" that there are black conservatives. Perhaps you can fathom that they are a distinct minority of black voters for very good reason.

It's hard to respond to that, Yetti, since it made absolutely no sense..

Please explain racism to me, Yetti. I mean You're calling me racist, in your own incoherent way, so you must be less ignorant about it than you sound. Enlighten me. Explain my racism to me.

Star Parker? Clarence Thomas? You only prove my point. The conservatives will elevate a miserable, unqualified hack like Thomas to the Supreme Court, and a clown like Parker to "pundit" status as long as they can be used against black people. I had no idea anyone was fool enough to actually buy that crap. Glad to meet you, Yetti.

That is so patently false that you either know you're lying or this is a sanity issue. It's interesting that only extreme right-wing white people (and a handful of self-loathing black lap-dogs) even pretend to agree with you. I guess the 85 - 90% of black people who abhor the right-wing politics of Thomas and Parker are just too ignorant to know any better. They need you to straighten them out, Yetti. How racist is that?

We can learn things outside our own experience. We can see what's in front of us. I've spent over 15 years working in diversity training and teaching against oppression. It's amazing how strenuously many people will stand on their heads and twist themselves inside out to avoid reality.

Yetti is giving a perfect demonstration. She is allying herself with flagrantly, overtly racist politics, and at the same time screaming "Racist!" at you and me. That is either willful or pathological.

Yetti has lived a privileged life, living off a rich husband. If she didn't have his money and if she were out on her own now, in her current deteriorated mental state, she would desperately need the support of the welfare system.

But because she can live off someone else, she thinks it qualifies her to condemn others. That's the face of right-wing America, ugly as it is.

I can call you a crazy lady and tell the truth about Parker, Coutler, Gannon, et al. They're all facts. Refute them.