True, she wouldn't be accepted into a television show geared for being the next top model if she wasn't pretty enough to be a model... but it seems that now we've switched gears from autism rights to feminst rights.
Admittedly, there's nothing truly pleasing about this show, in my opinion, except that it shows a *real live* aspie in a non-stereotypical way. (AKA- She's not counting toothpicks or rocking back in forth in a corner...) In my opinion, that is the girth of its importance to autistic people... showing a reality of autism that can inspire other auties.
"I do not have to limit myself to computer coding or other *aspie* jobs and interests. I can be who I want to be and push myself as far as I can go and with supportive people around me I can be a fantastic _________."
IMO- worth more than a million non-hot aspies doing whatever they're doing and not being on TV.
No... its true. Pretty girls get away with anything.
Though they always manage to complain no matter how well off they get it.
But I think I see your point... her getting on the show has nothing to do with her aspie-ness really... but her staying on the show and managing the melo-drama that life on a reality show entails will certainly have a lot to do with her AS... just another though.
So only aspies that are low functioning, fat and ugly can be in the spotlight?!?
You won't find me stepping up to be in that limelight...
I have no trouble fighting the feminist debate: women shouldn't be objectified by men... respect for all, beauty does not equal better...
But really?? Knocking the girl because in addition to AS genes she got "knock 'em dead gorgeous" genes?
*Of course* she couldn't possibly have ANY problems at all because she's pretty.
That's so much more shallow than what you're saying this show is...
Does anyone remember when the deaf girl won miss america? Her talent was dancing. Sure she was beautiful. But what impressed the judges and frankly, me, was that she was beautiful AND had to deal with the effects of her diversity, what made her different. And that she did so with confidence and pride in herself.
It is just so OVERWHELMINGLY negative and stereotypical to wish that aspies only be involved in "cerebral" activities.
I'm sorry. None of these things were very clear to me at all in your last few posts.
Aspies DO get a lot of recognition for their cerebral activities and accomplisments within their respected realms communities.
But we can't change the what society is interested in. If they had a reality show called, "america's next top scientist" it would not make it. Why? Because no one would watch it. Old B-rated celebs learning staged dance moves, sure. People making real changes in the world are only interesting to people that are looking for those changes. But Paris Hilton gets a new designer bag...
The only way people will learn more about AS is if we MAKE them learn more about it. You have to get people's attention to educate them. I think this show is a GREAT way for an aspie to do that.
Not to mention the fact that I think its something that she's passionate and interested in. On a personal level you have to respect someone that will willingly go after something that will be a struggle for her. And she goes after it with the voracious preservation that we all admire in aspies.
sarahjoke, this thread got me thinking about my perception that she seems "too high functioning" to be representative of aspies. It did occur to me that her diagnosis was done more than a decade when she was a child. Perhaps she would not even meet the criteria at this point. It's just that I see a woman who doesn't stim, who makes excellent, normal eye contact (even Tyra pointed this out, and asked why she can make eye contact given that aspies aren't supposed to be able to), has a completely normal voice modulation, speaks fluidly, she interacts very well with the other girls, especially given that they are such nasty people. Beyond seeming a little quirky I would never have supposed she was aspie unless the media had published it.
My comments in this thread were prompted by victor's thought, "Is this really the representation we need?" I don't feel she really represents me or the aspies I know. Other people may feel differently. However, I certainly wish her the best.
Well good luck to Heather, but I wonder if she is using her Aspergers as a pity factor <<
I have watched only about half the episodes from this season.
I watched the entire first season (which really was the best-- they had a brilliant med student and a few really inane fundamentalist christians who were always at each other) and all of the season that had the legally blind girl (can't remember which number season that was).
The blind girl, like heather, was the popular audience choice each week. She was by far the most beautiful and took the best pictures (however I do have partial face blindness, so maybe I'm not the best judge). It really looked like she would win, but the judges dismissed her third to last.
She definitely did use her blindness as a pity factor-- but-- it DID impair her, so I can't blame her. And her blindness was part of the reason they got rid of her-- so I wonder if they'll do the same to heather.
I always thought it was a shame she didn't win. I think there was a racial factor at work. The previous season's winner had been white, and I think they felt pressure to choose a black winner. The two finalists were both black, and to be honest, neither was very interesting.
In truth it might be better for heather's modeling career (if indeed this is what she wants to do) NOT to win, as none of this show's winners have had significant careers in modeling beyond the awarded one year contract. It might be better for her, in the long run, if she is dismissed and just forges out on her own. There probably is a stigma associated with this show in the real modeling world, by this point, as so many of the winners have turned out to be career duds.
The criticisms about her "Not being Aspie enough" are a bit ridiculous, really...
First, it was not meant as a criticism (if you are referring to my statements), it was an observation. It's one thing to say someone isn't aspie enough, it's another to point out that someone diagnosed as a child, more than 10 years ago, doesn't seem to show the diagnostic criteria as an adult. There are people who are diagnosed as children who stop showing traits as adults, or who show traits in much milder form.
Some Asperger's have prolonged / too much eye contact, rather than little or none.
From what i have seen, her eye contact is very normal. She doesn't do the "bore through your head" gaze nor the avoidance.
I believe that people with Asperger's should represent themselves ie their own personal ideals, we are all different, have differing needs & desires. Some of us are intellectual some are practical, this doesn't mean that we can't have a common aim....to be accepted for what we are.
Above all, we are all human. I also wish her well in her chosen career.
I just find it strange that the notion of Asperger's can somehow transcend diagnostic criteria. Without fitting the criteria, anyone could call him or herself Asperger's, and say that their lack or traits is just their "representation of personal ideals." At that point it's no longer a syndrome, but the emperor's new clothes.
Wow... so I was bummed out that she didn't make it (though based on her fan-base I don't think she's going to have problems at all...) and then this funny thing happened.
My hubby and his boss were chatting and she mentioned that I don't make eye contact (which is funny, I'm usually in the "aspie death stare" category...) and then a bit later mentioned that her favorite person got kicked off America's top model... "She had Asperger's, have you ever heard of it?" He thinks she was "testing the waters" to see if we *know*.
So I'm not sure if its a good thing or a bad thing that my wierdness now has a name that others will pick up on...
Also, one of my mommy group friends (that *knows*) brought it up. Sadly it was in the middle of a WAY too social christmas party that I wasn't able to wriggle out of soon enough so I was barely capable of following the conversation... I think I said, "yea, I know, its all over on the forums." -whoops.
I read the interview alex did with her on WP and she does acknowledge her AS and talk about how it affects her, so that's good enough for me to ease my doubts about her. If she had spoken about AS more on the show (granted I only watched about 50% of the episodes) I probably wouldn't have been as skeptical. Either way though she is very, very high functioning so it's hard for me to find it all as poignant as I might have otherwise been impressed.
Honestly I'm relieved she's still in school and not going to be stuck in NY away from her familiar territory. I think she'll do better if she forges out on her own terms.
I am getting fed up of this oh she's very high functioning... I get that a lot, that goes a long way to ignoring the struggle and the pain that I have had to get this far, the people I meet who have far worse than me that some of you compare to I have met such people and recognise myself in them at a younger age.
Actually I think it all brings up many fascinating questions about what functionality really means. In my opinion, if a person can perform certain acts under certain circumstances, even if they are suffering terribly, they are still higher functioning than the person who simply cannot do those acts under those circumstances no matter what. So it's not necessarily dismissive of the higher functioning person's suffering to acknowledge that there are some more impaired.
It also makes me wonder if it is even legitimate to have a "disorder" that is defined in terms of a "spectrum." Because what happens when you start applying nuance after nuance to behavioral analysis is that at some point you don't even need the behaviors anymore for the diagnosis. That's when I think it's gone too far, and I think at times current thought about Asperger's has gotten to that point.
Another question it brings up for me is the perception of Asperger's in women VS men (or girls VS boys). It could well be that we are so much more willing to accept odd behavior in women that a man and woman with exactly the same level of impairments could look distinct. Maybe if Heather had been a man, but had the same impairment level, "he" would have looked worse. I see this kind of differential gender interpretation between my two spectrum children, one male, one female. My girl is far more impaired than my son, but you would never guess it from people's reaction to them, respectively. They are just more willing to accept unusual behavior from girls.
Another issue it made me consider is that of shadow traits in autism. Heather reminds me an awful lot of one of my other daughters who has very clear shadow traits, but her overall functioning and behavioral picture are neurotypical. The shadow traits evince themselves when she is stressed, angry, tired, or under pressure (rocking, noise sensitivity, meltdowns). But 90% of the time she looks and behaves absolutely NT and can socialize well.
Remember, calling Heather high functioning would be quite a compliment anywhere other this board-- lol! I am surprised anyone was offended by this. Judging from her interview, she prides herself on looking normal.
I'm guessing (based on my own experience of course!) that many aspie girls do pretty well until teenage years hit. Whereas the boys might run into trouble earlier. In my case, the childhood aspie stuff was considered odd but quirky and endearing (and yeah, I was a cute and bright kid--just honest and klutzy as all get-out). But by the time I was 14 it was major trouble. Social expectations shifted, and I didn't. This was a cause of significant emotional pain and confusion. I knew something was "wrong" with me, an opinion enforced by the judgments of others, but I didn't know what.
I was actually the opposite. I was ok more or less until I hit puberty, at which point I became very attractive (at least according to other people) and received a great deal of unsolicited attention. Like heather I had people telling me I should model. I even went to an agency but realized I would never be able to tolerate it from a sensory or social perspective. It was a toxic environment. I also tended to have hidden bruises and scratches from self-injurious stimming that I knew would be a problem.
I never knew how to handle the attention I got from males (which led to some horrible events) nor the jealousy I got from females. One young woman once told me she "would kill to have a body like mine." The whole thing was horrifying to me.
I now intentionally dress "like a bag lady" (my husband's description), never wear makeup, don't do much about combing my hair. I try my best not to look attractive, because I hate the attention and jealousy. This is something I don't think an NT could understand.
Yup. I got that just from reading what she said to Dino Heretic. Not nice. I hope we don't have another troll-fest in the making.
She wrote what she did thinking I was heather (not sure why) which obviously I'm not! She then apologized when she realized her mistake.
But I too have my doubts about heather. I'm not going to go so far as to say she's deliberately faking it, but at most she seems to have shadow traits. She said she solved her socializing problems "by practicing in front of a mirror." Come on guys, if it were that easy, none of us wouild be here on this board.
I agree 100% with batman (I think it was batman) who said pushing onself, for an aspie, can be counterproductive if not outright dangerous. The only reason I'm still alive today is because I finally learned to accept my limits (even before I learned the word "Asperger's," it was clear to me I had distinct limits).
Does this work? This is my plan, to wear loose fitting and unattractive clothes. But what about your face? Do you wear a hat/veil/big glasses? What?? I even thought about making my own fatsuit to wear out in public (like they have in Hollywood when thin actresses like Gwyneth Paltrow portray fat women). I feel a real fear of attention, so much that I allowed myself to be overweight for my entire adult life. But at least there were no more horrible events that way! Thanks for your post.
Well here are my rules for myself-- never wear fashionable clothes, never wear tight, short, or revealing clothes. If you dress modestly men will pay less attention to you. Don't wear flashy, pretty colors-- dress drab. Never wear heels. Don't do much with your hair (I comb mine and put it a ponytail or up in a clip). Don't hide any gray hair you develop.
(Now obviously those are my rules for myself-- lol-- but if a woman wants to glam out, it's her business and I won't judge!)
I don't have big boobs (I'm pretty flat chested) and I'm glad for it. That's something men stare at a lot and I'm not sure how you could hide it.
Does any really intelligent person pretend to be stupid because they were teased and bullied for being smart in school. I hope not.
Actually, becuase of constant teasing by my sister and neighborhood kids, I stopped using a big vocabulary. Even now I always choose the lowest common denominator when I speak... its a protective instinct that won't die, even when I wish it would.
People do different things for a lot of different reasons. I can easily see how someone who got too much unwanted attention would go to great lengths to avoid that attention. Just like I can see how an aspie that wants to make friends would go to great lengths to do so.
I have no problems with aspies that want to do something and go after, just like I have no problems with aspies that don't want to do something and don't go after it. In fact, using aspie is silly here, you can trade aspie with people. The bottom line: Do what YOU want to do and don't let other people tell you what you can and can't do, you are the only one that can make that distinguishment.
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