Is this really the represenation we need
Well, yes.
The fact that modeling isn't a personal interest of many Aspies is largely irrelevant. She's a likeable person in a high profile TV show, succeeding in what would normally be a very NT-oriented field. She's openly Aspie, acknowledges but doesn't dwell on her weaknesses, and knows how to use her strengths. She's also interesting in interviews, quite intelligent, and goes for the things she wants regardless of hardships.
All in all, she's exactly the sort of representation we need.
ditto to that.
Is this really the represenation we need
I actually don't think so. Though I don't think she's doing a bad thing by being on the show, I'm happy for her and hope she wins if that's what she really wants.
However I find it all very depressing in a way, because wouldn't it be better if we were recognized for our minds and our hearts? Why is it outward beauty that gets attention?
There are many aspies who contribute to the scientific community, or who have written very interesting books and articles, there are many aspie artists too (heather is an artist). I wish we could be recognized for these things (and sometimes we are, but not in the "hyped" way this show displays).
I also don't like the message (unintended or not) this sends aspie females... "if you're tall, thin, gorgeous, and passably NT (heather does do quite well socially, comparatively speaking), then you can succeed and people will admire you." The message should not be that. I don't think women should ever depend on their looks to get by, and I think that for an aspie female who happens to be attractive, depending on her looks could be quite dangerous, as she might not be able to properly negotiate the attention she'll invite. I really wonder, if heather wins, and enters into a modeling career, if she will be able to protect herself from being taken advantage of financially, sexually, emotionally, protect herself from eating disorders, if she will steer clear of drugs and alcohol. The modeling business is very cutthroat, catty, and brutal... the nastiness on that show pales in comparison to what goes on in real modeling.
I just think it would be better if we all worked on our self-esteem and our acceptance by society, outwardly beautiful or not. I feel very strongly that people should not be judged by appearances, and this show is nothing but that.
She's pointed out quite a few times that the reason she has such impressive photos is that she knows how to portray characters in her photos, rather than just "relying on her looks" - You'll notice that she actually appears fairly ordinary for much of the time, but appears to "transform" in front of the camera. While her attractiveness may play a big part, there's much more to the story than that.
I don't think she looks plain at all away from the camera-- and the truth is, if she were fat and ugly, but exactly the same inside, she wouldn't be on the show. Modeling is 90% looks and 10% how you hold yourself in front of the camera and appear in the print. Without that 90%, she would have no chance.
In other words, recognising that you have an ability and an interest in a particular area doe not send the message that others have to pursue the same interest in the same area. Regardless of her attractiveness, she's someone out there overcoming hardships to pursue the things she wants, and that's a very good message to send.
It's hard for me to say. It just depresses me that it had to be modeling and not something cerebral that got this publicity, and our attention.
She is also extremely high functioning compared to myself and aspies I know, so I'm not sure, comparatively speaking, how many hardships she's really had to overcome. I know people in much, much worse shape who have had worse obstacles to overcome. Most did not manage. So it's difficult for me to see her as wholly representative of us.
But really?? Knocking the girl because in addition to AS genes she got "knock 'em dead gorgeous" genes?
Where did I "knock" her? I was very clear that I hope she wins if that's what she wants, and that I'm happy for her.
*Of course* she couldn't possibly have ANY problems at all because she's pretty.
If you read my post, I said that an aspie woman being attractive can have things harder because of the attention she will unwittingly invite and perhaps not be able to properly negotiate. At no point did I say she has it easy "because she's pretty."
She IS very high functioning and compared to the aspies I know, and I think she does indeed have it easy compared to them because of her relatively high social skills.
It is just so OVERWHELMINGLY negative and stereotypical to wish that aspies only be involved in "cerebral" activities.
When did I use the term "only?" It just seems a shame, to me, that all of our cerebral contributions to society do not get this kind of hooplah.
FWIW, I just read the WP interview and she says that she was diagnosed at the age of fifteen. Nearly as soon as we saw her, both my husband and I recognized her mannerisms as being very similar to our four and a half year old daughter. I also recognized some old teenage postures of my own, hunching, kind of slunking, maybe looking a bit spooked, deer in the headlights kind of thing. I found Heather to be quite endearing. I haven't seen this last episode where she was cut, but it was clear from the previous one that Tyra was pissed that Heather failed to make good, so to speak, with the "extra" help she got being fed her lines one by one. I'm not surprised she was cut, but I'm very, very glad that she was on the show for as long as she was, it can only be good for our cause.
The criticisms about her "Not being Aspie enough" are a bit ridiculous, really...
First, it was not meant as a criticism (if you are referring to my statements), it was an observation. It's one thing to say someone isn't aspie enough, it's another to point out that someone diagnosed as a child, more than 10 years ago, doesn't seem to show the diagnostic criteria as an adult. There are people who are diagnosed as children who stop showing traits as adults, or who show traits in much milder form.
True, but not "showing traits" isn't the same thing as not having Aspergers anymore - it just means that they've found coping mechanisms for various situations.
For example, I can imagine you've probably memorised a few standard social responses to standard social questions by now. This doesn't mean that you've been "cured" of social issues.
Let's go a bit further. If you are a PRETTY girl with AS, you will be even less likely to be diagnosed. Maybe someone said this earlier in the thread, my apologies if so. My little girl is quite pretty (not just my opinion) and she can pretty much get away with anything because of it. Talks funny? Who cares, she's so easy on the eyes. I think I had a similar advantage growing up, combined with brainpower and a willingness/orientation towards helping. So what if I stare holes into you and go on and on about Jesus? Just look at that rack! Ha ha. Not so funny. Double-edged sword actually, since all of that slack I got for looking good disappeared along with my good looks. But now I'm on top of it, and can make a choice to deliberately exploit my almost-recovered looks to compensate for my autism. I was reading in Your Life is Not a Label that Mary Meinel Newport did exactly the same thing, once she realized the power of beauty to overcome discrimination, at least somewhat.
I was lucky (sort of) to have two NT girls take me under their wing so to speak in middle school, teaching me how to dress and wear makeup (YUCK, but great for gaining acceptance from NTs) to highlight my physical assets. It's weird, but I think I just took it as a rule that I had to look pretty, so I tried my best to follow that rule, and it did lead to social acceptance. Of course, when I got older and decided that was a really bad and stupid and EVIL rule, and began breaking it every way that I could (no makeup, no shaved legs or armpits, and then weight gain), I was correspondingly punished and shunned. Now that I have a daughter I am willing (grudgingly) to follow these rules for her sake, so SHE won't be shunned because her mother is a freak. {heavy sigh}
. . .
I never knew how to handle the attention I got from males (which led to some horrible events) nor the jealousy I got from females. One young woman once told me she "would kill to have a body like mine." The whole thing was horrifying to me.
I now intentionally dress "like a bag lady" (my husband's description), never wear makeup, don't do much about combing my hair. I try my best not to look attractive, because I hate the attention and jealousy. This is something I don't think an NT could understand.
Does this work? This is my plan, to wear loose fitting and unattractive clothes. But what about your face? Do you wear a hat/veil/big glasses? What?? I even thought about making my own fatsuit to wear out in public (like they have in Hollywood when thin actresses like Gwyneth Paltrow portray fat women). I feel a real fear of attention, so much that I allowed myself to be overweight for my entire adult life. But at least there were no more horrible events that way! Thanks for your post.
Speaking for myself, the passion I have felt with various special interests has impelled me towards actions that, in saner or more retrospective moments, I think were kind of nuts. But, analogously to love, I'll go with the "it's better to risk and fail than not risk at all" philosophy. But for me to risk, really risk, I have to have that passion.
I know exactly what you're talking about, and I bet Heather also had modelling as a passionate special interest, otherwise she probably wouldn't have done it. The passion has to be there, as you say, for you to go the distance. I can barely do anything I don't have interest in, speaking for myself.
I am a Aspie woman. I also don't think being a model is what I would call a brilliant role model. If she appears on here, or any other forum, she shouldn't be so surprised that she might have to explain herself.
She is choosing to behave in a way that is considered not typical for people who have Asperger's Syndrome. If she's strong enough to do that, then she's strong enough to get a re-diagnoses before talking about flights of fancy, like being a representative for people with Asperger's Syndrome.
Have I missed something? Did Heather appear on this board?
Heather appears quite obviously AS to me.
What on earth is going on here?
Because a young woman is beautiful & in her own way is successful, some other AS people are treating her in exactly the same way as an NT would...which looks very much like outright jealousy because she is able to do something they can't.
Perhaps the critics aren't AS?[/color]
I don't think I'm much of a critic of Heather, and I do think I am AS.
I think my overarching point in this thread is that an AS person shouldn't have to push themselves well beyond their perceived limits just because "it is the way to do things."
One can't deny that good things can come from testing your limits and pushing yourself to the max--that is an effective way to grow. But there are other ways to grow besides simply "throwing yourself out into the wild every day." There are other things to grow. You can grow your intellect, you can grow your skills in the arts, you can grow your interests. I think an AS person can, to a great extent, fill in what they lack in personal strength with their other gifts/interests--and for some this may be the best option. I know it is for me.
Sure it can be good to push yourself, but you also have to realistic. And secondly, why push yourself in a specific area when the endpoint isn't something you'd even want, in the first place? For me, the passion has to be there for me to "go all the way." Otherwise I won't.
(likely to be considered off topic, but in reply to prior posts, FWIW)
I wanted to agree with Bella on the skinny discrimination point, but to try to clarify a bit. When I see REALLY skinny women, I wonder if they are anorexic, and I hope that they are not killing themselves in pursuit of a false model of beauty. When I see a thin to normal sized woman I WILL be jealous. As a former member of that group (thin to normal) however, I have first hand experience with how "the public" responds to both normal-sized and fat people. I was treated MUCH better as a normal sized person, that is a fact. I like the invisibility of being fat, but not the derision and assumed personal flaws.
Why would anyone deliberately make themselves unattractive? To avoid attention. Out of a fear based response to being date-raped. Because you don't hear much about ugly fat women being raped, though I guess it happens. I think it was 1988 when a famous case was decided in the USA that the woman had asked to be raped by dressing attractively. That's why I dress to be UNattractive.
Sarahjoke, I PRAY that you will regain your $10 vocabularly words! A coworker of my husband's criticised HIM for always using big words. This is in the EDUCATION field, by the way! I love my big words, and use them precisely because they are precise: you can say what you mean in fewer words. I guess that's why Aspies like them, and NTs don't! They want ot blather on and on, we want to get the point across and move on!
(and back directly on the topic)
I totally think Heather is an Aspie. She is also an artist, and is majoring in game art design. Her special interest seems to be ART, and she USES HER BODY for art. Not a problem, in my book. The fact is that beauty exists, beauty appeals, and if we can have a beautiful spokesperson it is all for the good. That is another reason I have made the decision to lose weight: because I want to be a more vocal and visible advocate for autistics, and I will be received MUCH better if I am more attractive. I don't like that that is the case, but, like it or not, the fact remains.
Look, this all wouldn't be an issue if Heather didn't say she wanted to be a spokesperson for people with Asperger's Syndrome. She does not represent all of us. It'd be nice if we had someone representing us, that didn't appear to be trying so hard to be NT.
Heather has AS and can certainly represent it, I think. I think she would make a good spokesperson for it.
But she is in the "AS/ADHD" combined subtype--her diagnosis at age 15 was Asperger's and ADHD (factual.) This type is not quite the classic AS most of us here are familiar with, although it has a lot in common with it. I am in the "AS/ADHD" subtype, having features of both conditions but lacking a few stereotypical features of AS.
Probably the reason I disagree with so many people on this board--get into arguments about things many ASers find so inconsequential--is my ADHD. Six of one, half dozen of the other...
Look, this all wouldn't be an issue if Heather didn't say she wanted to be a spokesperson for people with Asperger's Syndrome. She does not represent all of us. It'd be nice if we had someone representing us, that didn't appear to be trying so hard to be NT.
Heather has AS and can certainly represent it, I think. I think she would make a good spokesperson for it.
But she is in the "AS/ADHD" combined subtype--her diagnosis at age 15 was Asperger's and ADHD (factual.) This type is not quite the classic AS most of us here are familiar with, although it has a lot in common with it.
I don't know that there is a 'classic type' of AS, so to speak - For example, I'm pretty different from most aspies I know...
From what I've seen, we're all pretty different here.
There is a classic/rigidly defined AS according to those who have the classic AS. I define the classic AS as ticking the boxes for many of the more commonly known stereotypes: "great at Math; loves factual information; obsessed with train schedules as a kid; disputes anything that falls from logic or 'scientific' accuracy; can recall facts, numbers, dates in perfect detail."
I won't lie that I have observed a good number of folks on AFF who match a lot of these "classic" criteria (well--to my mind--these are "classic AS" criteria, FWIW) and they do seem to be unaware that some AS folks don't fit that mold, whatsoever. I don't see this as a criticism, just an observation.
I'd still have to disagree - a lot of these things are called stereotypes for a reason. Only about 10% of aspies tick the "great at maths" box, not many sat around memorising train schedules as kids, and there's quite a variance of all sorts of skill levels.
If a person was to invent a list of "usual" aspie traits, it would probably involve special interests, social awkwardness and "out of the box" thinking - I don't know that there is a standard set of skills that aspies usually share.
I'll give you that--your take on my "classic AS" idea is understandable, as my idea is over-generalized and you point this out.
But I think I was also trying to say--though I may not have said it directly--that if you have AS and you are also diagnosed with ADHD, there may be some aspects to your personality (after all, a lot of AS traits are in the personality) that would be considered unusual for someone for AS. This makes logical sense to me, anyhow.
For one thing, some AS people are frequently diagnosed with ADHD first, and then later on get the (correct) AS diagnosis--so there appears to be some aspects of the AS/ADHD combination that make it hard to "tease out" the AS.
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