Aspies For Freedom

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Luai_lashire Wrote:
She pronounces it "oz-burgers".  I've heard different pronounciations before, but never that one.
It's pretty obvious from the way she moves; she's deffinetly got the Aspie body language.  I hope that her odd movements won't be a hinderance in the competition, but.....  you never know with these reality shows.

I haven't heard it said that way either.
I don't really go for stuff like this, but good luck to her she's quite brave to put herself through this & I hope she winsSmile

Tigger_the_Wing Wrote:
I still have volume problems but I think I've nailed the intonation. Except that when I'm not thinking about it I get a Yorkshire accent (I blame my mum for that!).


Volume problems?.....do you mean loud? Smile

Tigger_the_Wing Wrote:

woman from mars Wrote:
Volume problems?.....do you mean loud? Smile


Sorry, I missed your question earlier. Yes loud, but also sometimes too quiet. Two of my sons have the same difficulty. We all three have intermittent hearing loss, which doesn't help matters.

Thanks, I asked as I am accused of talking to loudly but I don't hear myself that way.Rolleyes

jader Wrote:
but aren't there aspies who are less sensitive to touch and love to have their hair played with and to get hugs from everyone?

My son John's idea of heaven, stroking his hair & his forehead, but mustn't touch his chin. (  only likes to hug his mum)Big GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig Grin

woman from mars Wrote:

jader Wrote:
but aren't there aspies who are less sensitive to touch and love to have their hair played with and to get hugs from everyone?

My son John's idea of heaven, stroking his hair & his forehead, but mustn't touch his chin. (  only likes to hug his mum)Big GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig Grin


I forgot to mention that I was like this as a child-- begging for hugs and to have my hair played with. At least begging from all the people who smelled good. Wink As I've gotten older I can't stand light touch from people I don't know really well, though it doesn't bother me to be accidentally bumped in public- as long as I don't know the person and they apologize.

Update on Heather.

http://blog.nj.com/alltv/2007/09/its_not...green.html

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And now for the shows I actually watched live (or close to it) last night.

I'm in general an "America's Next Top Model" agnostic, tuning in a few times a cycle to laugh at the models being stupid and/or the photo shoots being creepy (crime scene photos! gender-bending!) but never caring enough to make it appointment viewing. But dammit, stupid Tyra Banks has made me care by casting Heather, the girl with Asperger's. I know enough people with various degrees of Asperger's that I want to see how she does, even though I could easily predict everything that's happened to her so far: from the other girls being that ignorant and mean about it (particularly the one who whined that she wouldn't want Heather to "cling" to her, which misses the entire point of Asperger's) to the fact that Tyra's going to keep her around for a while for uplift purposes. Still, getting the first photo callout (and the other girls' reaction to same) was a nice touch, and while I don't expect her to win, she does take a good picture and I guess I'm around as long as she is. (Prettiest/most model-y girl by far? Lisa, but, like that awful one with the purple weave said, is Tyra -- sanctimonious, Oprah wannabe Tyra -- really going to pick an ex-stripper?)

Batman55 Wrote:
I missed all the episodes so far, perhaps I can download them...?


Yep! They're all on Youtube - thats how I've been keeping up to date...

dinosaur heretic Wrote:
sarahjoke, this thread got me thinking about my perception that she seems "too high functioning" to be representative of aspies.  It did occur to me that her diagnosis was done more than a decade when she was a child.  Perhaps she would not even meet the criteria at this point.  It's just that I see a woman who doesn't stim, who makes excellent, normal eye contact (even Tyra pointed this out, and asked why she can make eye contact given that aspies aren't supposed to be able to),


I very seldom watch television & certainly couldn't bear to watch a reality programme, Miss World or the like, but I have seen some of the youtube posts.

My 17 year old son  stims most of the time whilst at home, but is generally able to either conceal or convert it into acceptable behaviour whilst in public.

Some Asperger's have prolonged / too much eye contact, rather than little or none.

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has a completely normal voice modulation, speaks fluidly, she interacts very well with the other girls, especially given that they are such nasty people.  Beyond seeming a little quirky I would never have supposed she was aspie unless the media had published it.

If modeling or participating in this show is this young woman's main desire, like many ' driven ' AS people, she would do everything she could to achieve this.

Quote:
My comments in this thread were prompted by victor's thought, "Is this really the representation we need?"  I don't feel she really represents me or the aspies I know.  Other people may feel differently.  However, I certainly wish her the best.

I believe that people with Asperger's should represent themselves ie their own personal ideals, we are all different, have differing needs & desires. Some of us are intellectual some are practical, this doesn't mean that we can't have a common aim....to be accepted for what we are.
Above all, we are all human. I also wish her well in her chosen career.

dinosaur heretic Wrote:

woman from mars Wrote:
Some Asperger's have prolonged / too much eye contact, rather than little or none.


From what i have seen, her eye contact is very normal.  She doesn't do the "bore through your head" gaze nor the avoidance.

I haven't seen enough of her to be able to comment upon her eye contact, I am one who does use too much, I find it very hard to look away but I manage it with some difficulty..

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I just find it strange that the notion of Asperger's can somehow transcend diagnostic criteria.  Without fitting the criteria, anyone could call him or herself Asperger's, and say that their lack or traits is just their "representation of personal ideals."  At that point it's no longer a syndrome, but the emperor's new clothes.

We only see this young woman in an edited TV programme, we don't  know how she is in real life.

symbiotic_butterfly Wrote:
I loved heather too, glad to say she is just about the only model cut from that show who handled her exit with real dignity, and it's a good thing she is finally out of the company of all those nasty mean-spirited bitches.  I have gotten flak for speculating on the nature of "what is considered normal is just an evil status quo, and commonality doesn't make it right", but this series was a good example.  Aspies are classified as a disorder because their emotional responses in social situations "aren't appropriate"?
Consider how the "normal" girls behaved in their social interactions:  They never passed up an opportunity to put someone else down.  They laughed whenever another girl struggled.  They were jealous when another girl did well.  (I don't mean as a collective against Heather, I mean as individuals against eachother).  They blamed others for their own failures.  This is how "normal" people are expected to behave.  It's not what the diagnosis books say, but in observing behaviors, it is the indisputable norm.
Consider how Heather behaved: She never put anyone else down, no matter how mean they had been to her.  When another girl struggled, Heather would hold her hand and say "It's ok. You can do this."  When another girl did well, Heather congratulated her.  When other girls were mean to her, she cried.  When Heather failed, she blamed no one but Heather.  Yet SHE'S supposed to be the "inappropriate" one?
Heather's social behaviors ARE what textbooks would say is appropriate, yet in real life, seeing her in close comparison to "normals", it's easy to see why she'll never fit in with normals: she wasn't just pretending to be nice. She lacks the capacity to pretend to be nice while really being evil, to be sneaky and underhanded and backstabbing and greedy, which in my opinion is the real defining characteristic of "normal" social behavior.  They call us flawed for lacking the ability to be two-faced and deceptive.  Everyone should be so "flawed".
I'm not trying to imply that we have a lock on moral superiority, but it has to make you wonder what's really "appropriate" when you see the way normals really treat others and how commonly their behavior is contradictory to what the textbooks claim is natural.


This is extremely well put, very true & in my opinion ought to have a chapter of its own in all of the textbooks about AS.Smile

Fruitcake Wrote:
I personally feel that Heather represents myself as a woman with an ASD and I hope she goes on to do well for herself, she represents a more real persona of someone like myself who could be anyone sister, neighbour, co-worker and this is good that the media has show this.

I totally agree, this ought to be combined with the above in the textbooks.Smile

Here's what I just got this morning from Hope's history teacher re "America's Next Top Model":

Some of my students told me about her--how neat!  

Did I tell you that a young lady in journalism class who talks with Hope was interested in writing a story about Asperger's? She wanted to interview Hope if she would allow it. I heard this very third hand from another journalism student so I don't know how reliable the info is. I was told the student was going to ask Hope if she'd be interested in being interviewed.

dinosaur heretic Wrote:
She said she solved her socializing problems "by practicing in front of a mirror."  Come on guys, if it were that easy, none of us wouild be here on this board.

I practiced expressions in front of a mirror for as long as I can remember in order to know what each expression would look like to others, albeit I didn't know why.

sarahjoke Wrote:

M Wrote:
Does any really intelligent person pretend to be stupid because they were teased and bullied for being smart in school.  I hope not.


Actually, becuase of constant teasing by my sister and neighborhood kids, I stopped using a big vocabulary. Even now I always choose the lowest common denominator when I speak... its a protective instinct that won't die, even when I wish it would.

Me too but in my case when I was in my 20's because of the area in which I lived., if I hadn't done so I would have been treated much worse than I was.
A case of ' when in Rome '. pretty much fits the bill, I'm very fortunate that now I live in an area where an extensive vocabulary is the norm.
I'm relearning & thoroughly enjoying it. Big Grin

Quote:
People do different things for a lot of different reasons. I can easily see how someone who got too much unwanted attention would go to great lengths to avoid that attention. Just like I can see how an aspie that wants to make friends would go to great lengths to do so.

I have no problems with aspies that want to do something and go after, just like I have no problems with aspies that don't want to do something and don't go after it. In fact, using aspie is silly here, you can trade aspie with people. The bottom line: Do what YOU want to do and don't let other people tell you what you can and can't do, you are the only one that can make that distinguishment.

I totally agree...we are all people, different, but still people.

violet_yoshi Wrote:

Fruitcake Wrote:
Maybe the reason Heather is able to "push herself all the way out" is that she's not Aspie. It seems she's using claiming to have Asperger's Syndrome to play on the victim nature of it.

Come on, do you know anyone with Asperger's Syndrome who would subject themselves to a show like Top Model? Has it occured to anyone she might be just trying to get an edge on the other models, by targeting a disenfranchised group of people who are desperate to see they're approved of?

It's easy to mimick a lack of eye contact and not understanding things, if you're an actor/actress. It's also easy to cry on the phone, claiming to be upset when it's obvious one subjected themselves willingly to the nature that they are upset over.

She didn't have to go on Top Model, I would've had more respect frankly if she didn't. At least then I can say, ok she's acting like a real Aspie. She's just using the nature of Asperger's Syndrome, to build herself up as a victim on the show. If it wasn't Asperger's Syndrome, it would be something else.


To set the record straight:-This was Fruitcake quoting an earlier post of yours ( the quote didn't appear as a quote  which I'm sure was the intention), you have  re-quoted your own post to look as though Fruitcake said this.

I do not think it would be that easy to act asperger's and certainly not for the length of time that Heather was in there, what do you have a problem with aspie women? I see hear a brilliant role model for women like myself and you dis it?  Do we not want NT to have more of a realistic idea of what ASD's are especially high Functioning to get away from the stereotypes, I know for myself when I found out I was different because I have HFA I found it hard to find many female perceptives of HFA/Asperger's.  I really think you should think before you post your comments have upset me and I am sure that if Heather read them what would she think from such a discussion within the autistic community.


I am a Aspie woman. I also don't think being a model is what I would call a brilliant role model. If she appears on here, or any other forum, she shouldn't be so surprised that she might have to explain herself.

She is choosing to behave in a way that is considered not typical for people who have Asperger's Syndrome. If she's strong enough to do that, then she's strong enough to get a re-diagnoses before talking about flights of fancy, like being a representative for people with Asperger's Syndrome.
[/quote]

energeia Wrote:
Oh geez---with all the discussion here regarding the legitimacy of the not-officially-diagnosed, here we have someone who HAS been diagnosed, and somebody wants to de-legitimize her because she seems too functional or has chosen a domain that appears counter-intuitive.  

There are SO many interesting issues up for discussion here.
What does "impairment" really mean (re: the DSM diagnostic of "triad of impairments") How impaired must one be to qualify as an aspie?  What happens if an aspie diagnosis is defined in terms of strengths as well as impairments?

How context-dependent is the impairment?  To what extent do group norms affect these judgements?  (E.g. in Heather's case, she's getting dinged for awkwardness, eye contact and, to some extent, inarticulateness (e.g. not doing the Cover Girl lines), all of which might or might not affect her desirability as a model--depends on what type of modeling.  But probably none of these traits would be a problem if she went into computer programming.)

To what extent can impairments be overcome by life experience?  (E.g. I don't get criticized much now for the behaviors I used to get criticized for when I was younger--awkwardness, lack of eye contact, boring people to death with my special interests, dressing inappropriately.)  However, I still get both criticized and applauded for my overly blunt or outrageous comments in meetings--the lack of social filter issue.  Which results in occasional emails from our HR director telling me that what I said could be considered "inappropriate."  My standard response is: Why?  It was true.  I'll also get people coming up to me to say: I'm SO glad you said that--I wanted to but didn't dare.  So--is this an impairment or a strength?  It depends, right?)


srp07 Wrote:
I think it's rather silly to suggest that Heather's not aspie just because she put herself into a situation which many of us would be uncomfortable with.  In the past I've, for reasons which are rather complicated, placed myself into situations which were hugely difficult and uncomfortable given my social impairments.  I've been a camp counselor at a sleep-away camp; I don't think that's proof I'm not aspie.  Some of this sounds suspiciously like bigoted psychiatrists who think that autistics can't ever get married/have friends/make eye contact ever, etc.  

Incidentally, I agree that the modeling profession is rather shallow and promotes unrealistic body images.  But I'm certainly not going to begrudge Heather for trying to enter it when she's naturally endowed to do so.  I think she really showed a likable and relatable personality on the show.  I don't think there should be a single spokesperson for AS, but she wouldn't be a bad choice at all IMO.


I totally agree with all of the positive posts here, I haven't  watched the programme, but I have looked at the links kindly posted by others'.  
Heather appears quite obviously AS to me.

What on earth is going on here?
Because a young woman is beautiful & in her own way is successful, some other AS people are treating her in exactly the same way as an NT would...which looks very much like outright  jealousy because she is able to do something they can't.

Perhaps the critics aren't AS?

Batman55 Wrote:

woman from mars Wrote:
Heather appears quite obviously AS to me.

What on earth is going on here?
Because a young woman is beautiful & in her own way is successful, some other AS people are treating her in exactly the same way as an NT would...which looks very much like outright  jealousy because she is able to do something they can't.

Perhaps the critics aren't AS?[/color]


I don't think I'm much of a critic of Heather, and I do think I am AS.

I don't think that you are a critic & I do believe you have AS.
Smile

I think my overarching point in this thread is that an AS person shouldn't have to push themselves well beyond their perceived limits just because "it is the way to do things."

One can't deny that good things can come from testing your limits and pushing yourself to the max--that is an effective way to grow.  But there are other ways to grow besides simply "throwing yourself out into the wild every day."  There are other things to grow.  You can grow your intellect, you can grow your skills in the arts, you can grow your interests.  I think an AS person can, to a great extent, fill in what they lack in personal strength with their other gifts/interests--and for some this may be the best option.  I know it is for me.

Sure it can be good to push yourself, but you also have to realistic.  And secondly, why push yourself in a specific area when the endpoint isn't something you'd even want, in the first place?  For me, the passion has to be there for me to "go all the way."  Otherwise I won't.

I quite agree, but Heather has chosen this path herself some AS people do feel feel compelled to ' push themselves ', but this can be pushing themselves to just get to work, get through the day..or to pursue a hobby / goal to the exclusion of all else.
We must always remember that we are all different with different aims & goals, this doesn't mean that any one person is better or worse than anyone else, neither does it mean that anyone must ' push themselves ' to any limits, for some  just getting through each day is a hard enough target.


violet_yoshi Wrote:
Ok you know, I think you've got me. I give up. I mean, you're right. I dunno, I really don't like how people here seem to ignore the reality involved with being mainstream good looking, and that if we lived in a proper world everyone would be seen as beautiful. What was on the inside really would matter. Also that, your body is at a set weight, if you try to force it against that weight it will only rebel in the end and make you more fat than you did to begin with. It is ignorant to claim that becoming thin is just a matter of self-starv...I mean dieting.


It seems to me that all of this is a self esteem issue.

Beautiful is as beautiful does.

No one can get into anyone else's skin, but do those of you who think that you are unattractive for various reasons not realise that these ' beautiful people ' suffer the same anxieties?

Do you really not want to be able to eat real food in reasonable amounts?
Do you want to get up 2 hours early, so that your body looks ' perfect' ( after all of the cosmetic surgery you needed to maintain these looks )? I could go on but I think you get the gist....very few are  happy with the way they are, those that are  will be the older ones who have learned to accept themselves.

Yes the real world is cruel, we have no choice but to live in it & often struggle.
We do all have a choice how we use whatever assets we have & everyone has some assets...use them to your advantage.

I don't know about adults but I've heard that if a child has both AD/HD and AS, and is medicated for the AD/HD, the AS then becomes glaringly obvious.
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